ltwguns.com

Greetings,
With today's 1911-carry trend moving towards using more Ti frames, and with this the concommitant increased possibilty of slide-to-frame wear or "galling," what can be done to reduce the likelihood of this occuring?
Some have mentioned reducing the amount of, or size (grade) of, lapping compound used when fitting a slide and frame. The belief here is that the compound is becoming imbedded in the Ti frame and after a period of firing begins to cause wear/galling. Others say that the surface structure of Ti itself, even when polished, is still sufficiently rough so as to abrade the slide and cause it to become damaged. The supposed cure for this is to coat (hard-chrome, polymers, anodize, etc.) either the slide or the frame , or both, to prevent this negative interface. Yet others suggest that Ti needs an overall looser slide-to-frame fit and more/better lubricant between these two surfaces, and that doing so will prevent damage.
While I understand that many Ti-framed guns have been built within the last few years that do not exhibit any slide-to-frame problems, enough people are experiencing wear/galling in this area that a common misunderstanding still exists as to the proper fitment and interface of these components.
What do you think is causing this problem, and can it be entirely eliminated?

ktmhk53

Galling is the term used to described the wear characteristics of the metal wearing, it almost appears to be a smearing of the surface. I do not believe you have trapped lapping compound (it would appear as looseness/wear, not galling), although a good ultrasonic cleaning would remove any doubt.

Titianium is a soft metal, it cannot not be heat treated in a conventional manner to increase hardness. (to improve wear characteristics). To harden titanium it must be either work hardened (forged, stamped, etc), or coated with a hard coating like TiN, SiC, etc.

A common solution is to annodize the titanium. Unfortunately class 1 and 2 annodizing is mostly cosmetic and will not provide the surface hardness or last long on wear surfaces. Class 3 annodizing will give you the surface hardness you're seeking, but I believe the only color option is black. I would coat/annodize the Titanium components. If the slide is Stainless or Carbon Steel, I do not believe it would require coating.

It is also important to have proper lubrication. I would agree sufficient lube (I would use a grease) would prevent galling.

For the above reasons, I would not select a cast titanium frame. It would be interesting to see if someone could figure out how to work harden the rails and relieve the residual stresses to make it work. The easier solution is to start with a forging, or coat.

Based upon cost/benefit, I think you'll find less, not more titanium frames in the future. Aluminum, and aluminum with scandium provide equivalent weight/strength characteristics without the cost penalty and processing issues.

Just my $0.02

Regards,

Ti is a pain in the a**. I build them, but they're a pain in the a**.

As Hypersonic said, aluminum is preferable (at least to me).

The problem is, to the best of my knowledge (and that ain't much), no one is making a good aluminum frame for buildups. Baer makes them, but won't sell them without his machine cut checkering.

Perhaps one of our enterprizing members that owns a good CAD/CAM machine shop is listening?!?! If so, call me and let's TALK!

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CT Brian Custom
'Blending Art With Firepower'

I'm with Tim. I've pretty much decided that future Ti buildups will carry a Ti surcharge. Certain operations on these frames are miserable.

I don't see a huge benefit weight-wise, so again I agree that if light weight is the goal, use aluminum-- it's half the weight of Ti. I tell people to think of frame weights in these terms- steel is 3/3rds, Ti is 2/3rds, and aluminum is 1/3rd--- if you look up the weights per cubic inch of the three materials you'll see that it breaks down almost exactly this way.

Greetings again,
Further research has revealed that the use of NP3 on titanium is an iffy proposition. Sometimes it sticks, and sometimes it doesn't.
Also, you can not hard chrome titanium. This I learned from one of the foremost handgun chromers, Metaloy.
Lastly, I was told by a prominent gunsmith that titanium frames need some type of finish applied, otherwise an oxidation will form on the surface that can eventually turn "black" in color.
With all these finishing restrictions, and the inherent difficulty in working with the material itself, maybe my earlier proposition suggesting the increased use of titanium framed pistols was ill informed.

ktmhk53

Titanium frames were designed to fill a nitch where lightweight is desireable in a hard use pistol. Although they are soft compared to steel they are much harder and much tougher than aluminum. I believe that technologies exist that will eventually take care of any concerns connected with this material. For example, Virgil Tripp mentioned to me that he had developed a technique to apply carbide to the rails that slickened them right up.

Yo Gary!

Let me be the first to say welcome to LTW, we've had a VIP StratoLounger reserved for you here all along!

For anyone who doesn't know, Gary is the man at Caspian.

Yeah, the niche for Ti frames is small, but I do tip my hat to you for doing what Caspian does best-- offering new and unusual products that can't be found elsewhere.

Nice to see you here, Gary.

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CT Brian Custom
'Blending Art With Firepower'

I remember on the BE list that Clark Custom sent out titanium frames to have Accurails put in.

Ed Masaki, BE gunsmith used to TIG weld (?term) some sort of metal to his stainless guns. Is this similar to Virgil Trip?

Thanks,
Lester

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Lester Wang

Since Mr. Smith has joined the discussion, I have a request... I understand the niche (and it is a niche) that titanium fills in the 1911 world. Having said that, I much prefer the aluminum/Scandium option. Is there any chance that Caspian will introduce a Scandium frame option in the future?

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Wayne Miller