ltwguns.com

What's the average wait for you guys for custom work right now? How long would it take for the following:

- Heinie Sights
- Bearvertail Grip Safety
- NM Bushing
- Trigger Job w/ new trigger, hammer and sear
- Basic Reliability Work
- Stippled front strap and fitted and stippled MSH
- Refinished

It seems like most noted gunsmiths have a long wait for the excellent work you do. I'm just curious what the wait is (or average wait).

You know I am very interested in the response too.

Cameron

Your best bet may be to contact the 'smiths directly.

Mike

i could be mistaken. but i think its kinda like the custom holster buisness. you have to wait your turn. whether you want a big order or one little bitty order.
im pretty sure a full house custom and just the mods you want done will take the same amount of time...

correct me if wrong please

Most of the Smiths I am aware of will not quote a waiting time. It benefits no one for them to do so as there are just to many variables.

Some Smiths (probably most of them) have what they call a short list for simple repairs and tune ups but the list of things you are asking for would not be considered as a short list job or at least I wouldn't think so.

Believe me every smith on this site and most all the smiths I have meant try their very best to return your weapon completed and up to their standards as soon as they can.

Just be patient and pass your time figuring how you are going to pay for it when it is done.

Gary

+1 on what Gary said. I waited a fair amount of time for my Commander carry twins, but in the end it was worth every day of the wait.

Its a question of supply and demand - the top smiths have only so much time to work in a given day or week. People are willing to get in line for that smith to do his magic.

JeffVN

You all are right.

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War does not determine who is right, war determines who is left.

I'd say be patient it is gonna be two more weeks. Seriously, every smith here wants to get your gun out, that is what they do for a living. Most custom shops, not all, sometimes shy away from only doing "a little" work on a gun. The reason being you already have it apart, some things are done, and you know once you deliver the gun, there is a good chance you will see it again with a request for more work done to it.

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Heirloom Precision, LLC.
480-804-1911

"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking."
- General George Patton Jr

I'd say you're a bit late. I'd also suggest having some patience and a little understanding of how the guy does business. While it's natural to try and estimate to the week, it's just not realistic. No one knows from one day to the next (including myself) what distractions and obstacles are going to come up.

I frequently have days where I have to log in 15 or more guns and write work orders. In and around phonecalls, visitors, and emails. Guess whose guns get worked on on days like that? I have no idea day to day what those distractions may be, and I've stopped trying to give estimates on how long things may take.

The bottom line is, and many of my customers will bear this out - you go to a specific guy for a reason. If it's time, and time only, find a guy who's fast. There are a lot of them, and they're not usually very busy. If you want quality, find a guy who delivers quality, and wait for him.

There are three words active in my spam filter that will get an email kicked to the trash bin - Viagra, XXX, and
turnaround time.

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Heirloom Precision, LLC.
480-804-1911

Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing.

TR

Most of the 'smiths here are one man shops, myself included. That means that anything that gets done, from sweeping the floor, to repairing the equipment and going to the post office gets done by that one guy. As Ted says, you never know what's going to crop up. I'd love to spend all day every day at the bench, but I can't due to (see floor sweeping, et.al. above). Also, if you quote a turnaround time, it's dependent on your average workflow and number of guns coming per week or month or..... Now, if suddenly you get 3 times that much work that hits the door in one week, it tends to throw you off a bit, as you can't get 'em out as fast as they came in. It's just another of lifes little challenges I guess.

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Don Williams
http://www.theactionworks.com
http://www.ltwguns.com

I'll have to agree with Don. I just got a SA 1911 from him and to me the wait seemed endless. The end result was worth the wait and I'm sure Don is glad he got rid of that SA 1911 so he doesn't have to answer bi-monthly emails from me. I tried to exercise patience but in my 42 years I've yet to learn that word. The wait was worth it though...

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And this eternal resting place Is known as Fiddlers' Green.

I have found it is best to send them off and forget them. Emails checking on the status just take time away from the smiths work. Trust me they will contact you when its ready. They are like the rest of us and like to get paid. If your in a big hurry buy a factory custom (Baer, Brown, Wilson).

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Gary Eastridge
http://www.randgfirearms.com

Trust me, it won't improve with age !

I think sometimes we forget that we are dealing with people. I also believe that deadlines are made with good intentions, meaning if all goes well. I know in my life there is the endless work and family issues that come up preventing me from keeping some commitments.

The smiths that responded to your question showed great reserve IMO.

Good advise, send it and forget it.

Btw, Ted is my gun done yet?


Brian

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Brian

OK, I agree with you all and what you say is no doubt true.

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War does not determine who is right, war determines who is left.

Believe me, if your 'smith' is running a little behind, please be patient. They will not rush someone else's gun or yours either and will not sacrifice quality. All of them take a lot of pride in their work. My gun was give an estimate of 6 months by my 'smith' and it looks like it will go over to the 7-8 month mark. He's a one man shop and I've already have 1 gun done by him which is absolutely amazing. In the end you will understand why the gun is well worth the wait!!..D

Big +1 to that. I've found that the best thing to do is send the gun off with very clear instructions, then forget about it. It'll get done when it gets done. The 'smiths don't need to be bothered, and all you end up doing is painting yourself as a pest.

I have had the good fortune of talking to Lew, Ted, Don, and Chuck. I even met them @ the Shot Show last year. They are not just smiths, but good men ALWAYS willing to take care of the customer.

Believe the others when they say send them and forget them. Can you believe Don actually apologized to me because he thought he was taking too long?! I am very patient and these men DELIVER. I have a custom BHP and a custom SA 1911 from Don Williams that are unreal.

Yost-Bonitz, The Action Works and Rogers Precision are all second to NONE.

I got a call today and had a very pleasant conversation with Lew Bonitz. Yes, MY GUN IS READY!!!!!!

MaceWindu

I struggle with this every day, and unfortunately, I am still not very precise in trying to give time frames. What I find is that I am sometimes, maybe usually, OK, almost always, overly hopeful and optimistic. Then, like the other guys said, life happens. I'll grant you that life does happen more or less at the same average rate over a given period of time, and maybe by now I should be able to account for it when trying to give a ballpark on delivery, but, well, in my case at least, I don't seem to be there yet.

Conclusion, I am dang lucky to have such polite and patient customers. I've said it before, that's been one of the most enjoyable aspects of being in this biz, is the quality of people I'm dealing with.

Guys.

My little retail operation tries to niche the one man shop with some of the craftsman's work with less then the normal wait for my clients. That is how I have survived in my little retail operation over the past 15 or so years. So if I write something that may seem offensive in any nature it is not meant that way. Just some experience from a long time with craftsman.

What is the normal wait?

Each shop varies. A shop with a good reputation will always have a wait, a shop with little wait and no reputation, there is a reason for that. Do your research part from my tag line

Always remember what each shop controls. i.e. wait on specialized parts, who does the finishing, the long list ahead of you with the same concerns, who provides the base piece, and above all there is always something that can and will cause an unexpected delay (i.e. illness, new baby, chromer change careers, active duty stint, hurricane, or whatever).

Best guess and I mean guess is two to three years for a shop with a growing or established reputation for a gun with a lot of work listed out plus or minus three to six months.

At least that what I plan for when I contract one for my resale operation.

Light work planned at least 6 to 12 months but I you still have the list of those ahead of you.

Be PATIENT, very patient, and do not NAG.

Time on the phone is time away from the work bench, time answering email is the same.

A follow up email or call about 6 or so months before expected delivery is normally not out of line but not a long discussion. Normally I will ask "Is all on track so I can put aside full payment."

(Note here as we all are not independently wealthy funds have to be saved and allocated) I usually reserve at least one third to one half somewhere to send to the smith if things are ahead of schedule as remember these guys have to eat, pay rent, support family and a few small things like that. The smith gets the reserved amount immediately if the project is ahead of schedule and I am not ready. Then I do not put the craftsman in a bind. Yes, folks, I have had projects come in ahead of schedule and I have only had to send part payment once. I mean once.

Remember as the buyer YOUR word is your BOND. The gunsmith and shop makes his living from it.

There is little that is more insulting than to have a customer nag several times , and then the customer not have funds when the gun is ready. If that is from my point of view as a reseller, imagine what the gunsmith and or shop goes through.

I hope I have given a few thoughts as what goofs I have made so you do not do the same to get the "dream" project.

_________________
Be safe and keep the brass flying

Terry Peters

Do your research but you get what you pay for front end or back end
http://www.pt-partners.com
@ptpartners_tx

Great perspective on this thread from smiths, customers and retailers. You can try to rush craftsmen, I suppose, but as an approach it's what Steve Tarani calls "less than optimal."

I ordered one of YoBo's 870P packages from Lew yesterday. I know going in that there are some supplier issues involved in this particular build, and I know what else to expect based on Lew's candid and amiable advice. There are forces well beyond the shop's control, and the time that YoBo people like Lew spend on the phone with customers like me, they're not at their benches building guns.

Now, as Mace Windu did, I"m going to put it out of my mind and wait for that call from Lew at some point in the future ("Your gun's ready").

When that call comes, it will doubtless be the best surprise of my week!

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NRA Endowment Member

I would not make the mistake of confusing time with quality.

Some very good smiths do work in a short amount of time. Others, for any number of very legitimate reasons, have long lead times.

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Jeff

Here's an aspect that no one's touched on yet. There are two obviously different basis' to establish your estimate of delivery on. One based on inquiries and one based on sales.

If I base my delivery estimate assuming that every inquiry constitutes an order, I will have a much, much longer wait than basing that estimate on what actually arrives in the form of a work order. Granted, I most likely won't run over on the delivery date, but if I tell you I have a 4 year wait and it's really only 18 months, how well would that work if you're using my estimate of time to budget money aside each month to pay the bill when it's due?

What I'm saying is that for every order you receive, you probably have had 6 to 10 inquiries. These inquiries range from fairly casual questions to people wanting quotes for very specific jobs. So worst case, you get one order for every ten inquiries.

If I base my estimates of delivery based on work in hand, the time frame doesn't cover the times when your ratio of 1 order for every 6 to 10 inquiries falls apart and you get 1 for 3, 3 for 3 or something like that. It just blows everything out of kilter. Then you have to consider the inquiries from 6 months ago that you assumed had gone away, but now are here from out of the blue.

Mind you, I'm not complaining about customer inquiries. I enjoy the planning almost as much as the customer. I'm just pointing out some angles that haven't been mentioned.

The above really only applies to full house jobs and is just a part of the many variables that cause the late delivery problem.

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shop.HarrisonCustom.com
www.HarrisonCustom.com

The grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do, something to love and something to hope for.

It's kind of unfortunate that this question is viewed so negatively. I imagine it's rather common. Whenever I talk to someone who's interested in custom guns but has never commissioned one or owned one that's invariable one of the first questions I get. It just seems to be natural.

Something additional the quite of few of the prospective looker's do not realize custom is not immediate or ready overnight.

Most "lookers" (for lack of a better term) are part of the no wait society or expect the immediately available. i.e. Average attention span of the U.S consumer is about 12 to 18 minutes which correlates with length of a broadcast program then a commercial.

Same applies with a problem. Length of the average television show or movie and all is done, solved, world is saved, cancer patient recover or whatever.

The "looker" forgot the skill, experience and time to get to the point of craftsman. Compare to a surgeon. I do not see a long line for lazer eye surgery at Wally World but it is coming. So the custom builder targets a totally different buyer or market.

I call it the best value client instead best price customers.

Best value wants quality. Good craftsman retire and rarely go bankrupt. Quality Product is the loyalty. These folks have done their research and get what they pay for up front. Cheap and discounts are for a reason and the buyer's undying gratitude is not it.

Best price wants the cheapest. Quality product does not enter the equation. Here is where marginal quality is the standard. There is a reason discounter's (i.e. K-Mart, Ultimate Electronic and others went out of business) are always going out of business. Cheapest Price is the loyalty. These folks do no research and get what they pay for in the end

Something I must add here. I have been blessed with some of the best value types who have and are of the best character, integrity and ethics. May be why I have survived in the business as long as I have.

That also may be why the best pricers or discounters retailers have so many so called "product" issues that are actually user or ethics issues.

Just a few additional thoughts from a retailer on why time is part of the best value.

_________________
Be safe and keep the brass flying

Terry Peters

Do your research but you get what you pay for front end or back end
http://www.pt-partners.com
@ptpartners_tx

I also believe, based on my own behavior, that customer behavior wreaks havoc on "quoted delivery times". In every project I have built, the pistol evolves as part of the process of getting it built. I usually start with an idea of what I want to do, expressed in an e-mail, and some fuzzy means of getting there. So the smith has to spend time working with me to draw out what I am looking to build. That is time building the pistol that does not involve any bench time.

As an example, one of my customs started as a "just add another barrel to this pistol". The end result had a lot more than just a new barrel, and the discussion on sights took days. I guess this is an example of "mission creep" that extends deliveries. I expect that there are also customers who start a project by specifying exact parts and/or features and then change the parts and features during the build. Obviously this extends delivery times.

In the end, I inquire about lead time, but I really do not care. I ALWAYS say, "Please do not hurry to work on my pistol. I want you to be enjoying working on my stuff". The result is a better relationship with the smith and anticipation is half the fun.

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Scott

Mission creep-- it's not just for presidents any more

Good term, and it does happen all the time..... and I'm not saying that's a bad thing.

I agree that quality can't (or shouldn't be) rushed.

That having been said, the advent of email should make some of the inqueries more manageable. Not taking phone calls, or screening calls, taking messages, and returning them at a more convenient (read "when not actually working on guns") time makes some sense.

Frankly, with the number of quality 'smiths out there, and the fact that I'll be dead a loooong time , I just wouldn't book a gun project with someone who either advises a waiting time in terms of years, or won't at least give me an approximate guess. I'll leave them alone once the project starts. The method some shops have of taking a deposit and booking a slot, but not sending the gun until it is called for, seems like a good idea.

I think most of us 'smiths are more than willing to spend time with the prospective customer up front, as we do really want to make sure you get what you want in custom work. Taking time to decide what sights, metal work, and finish for example are all part of the process, and while it's possible to build a "one size fits all" pistol, you can really buy those off the shelf, and if you're spending your hard earned money, why not get what you really want with regard to all the items entailed in the build process?

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Don Williams
http://www.theactionworks.com
http://www.ltwguns.com

Send the gun you want to the smith. buy another one to use till yours comes back. When your first one is back, send in the send in the second one and when you get it back you will be twice as happy as I am.

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Tony T
The only guns I like are those with triggers..

The first gun that Ted build for me was a re-work on a Kimber Compact. I sent it to him in December of 2001 and got it back in January of 2002. Six weeks door to door. Too bad the "times have changed."

Please excuse the poor photos and "busy" work bench.

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