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OK, I just didn't know where to put this really, but I think it's kinda important, so I decided to put it here.... hope it fits......

I've been dripping solvent from my elbows long enough, this can't be good for me. I'm starting to wear rubber gloves for cleaning. Jeff Chudwin showed me some very tactically tactical rubber gloves in black, but I decided I'd rather have something lighter so that I can see what's on them when I get into some real gunk. Now usually the solvent I use to excess is low-odor mineral spirits. I've seen lots of guys use aerosol carb and/or brake cleaner liberally and it makes me cringe. The low-odor spirits are almost certainly low-brain-damage too, by comparison at least. It seems like pretty benign stuff but just the same I've decided not to go bare-back in it any more, never mind some of the other stuff we all use in cleaning, be it Sweet's, Shooters' Choice, or what-have-you. If you wouldn't drink it you maybe ought not to be soaking your hooks in it.

So-- the following is my recommendation to the forumhood:

Call McMaster Carr at 630 833 0300, and order the nitrile gloves, # 52555T36, and state the size. I can just tell you that the circumference of my hand across the four base knucks is 8 1/2", and medium is just right to maybe just a tad tight. I might try large next time. At about $15 for 100 pair, there's not much of an excuse not to do this. I have one pair I've used 2-3 times now just to see how they last, and sofar so good. Plenty of feel, they're very thin.

Might just keep us out of the nursing home a few more years....

Ned,
You can also get disposable latex medical gloves at Costco. They come in 100 packs and aren't very expensive. The tactile sensation is very good and the only disadvantage is the latex isn't that tough so it will tear if caught on a sharp edge.

_________________
Ted

Excellent recommendation. I have always worn gloves while cleaning...

MaceWindu

Good auto parts stores as well......good advice sir!

Nitrile is most likely the glove of choice. Some solvents pass through latex leaving the glove looking intact. Quick search I found the following:


From http://www.conney.com
There really is no comparison for chemical protection when comparing natural rubber (latex) to nitrile. Nitrile is far superior over a greater range of chemicals. Natural rubber does not perform well with solvents, where nitrile is a far better choice. If you check our website under "chemical compatibility of gloves", you should find a variety of information to help substantiate this claim.

From http://www.cole-parmer.com
Chemical Compatibility Chart
For Disposable Gloves
A Warning: The information in this chart was supplied to Cole-Parmer by other reputable sources and is to be used ONLY as a guide in selecting gloves for chemical compatibility testing. Variability in material thickness, chemical concentration, temperature, and length of exposure to chemicals will affect specific performance.
Always test the products with the specific chemicals and under the specific conditions of your application.

The Link below is for the chart as it would not format to this page.

http://www.coleparmer.com/techinfo/tech ... Gloves.htm



Hope this helps

Safety first

Bryan

Wait...I can use Mineral Spirits to clean my guns?

_________________
"Suppose they gave a war, and nobody came?
Why then, the war would come to you!"
(Bertolt Brecht)

Thanks, Mr Christiansen, for bringing this up. I've wanted to get the word out on this for a while, but didn't feel knowledgable enough.

I started working for an airline as an aircraft mech in 1987. They were just getting away from some of the nastier chemicals and solvents at that time. That wasn't very long ago, but a lot of the "old timers" have been gone for a while. Many were victims of cancer, usually of the liver it seems.

Most of those solvents were chlorine-based, with Trichlorethylene being perhaps the most common. Guys would wash up in the stuff. They would stand in the airplane wheelwells, take a five gallon bucket of it, and splash it around to degrease. Most weren't that bad about it, but those are the events that are hard to forget now.

Anyway, when I've looked at aresol brake cleaners, and many other solvents I've heard of people using, I saw chlorine-based ingredients.

Run away!

And yes, latex gloves are about worthless. They may keep your hands clean (appearance-wise) but that's all. Think about it- what do solvents do? They penetrate and breakdown other things.
And that includes gloves.

With that in mind, CHANGE YOUR GLOVES. They won't keep solvents out forever. I wouldn't trust any glove, Nitrile or otherwise, for a very long length of time.

For a major detail strip/cleaning I use a combination of Simple green and water followed by compressed air. Works great. smells good and my house doesnt stink like solvents and I don't get high from aerosols...

I no longer clean my pistol barrels with anything more than a stiff nylon brush and mineral spirits on advice from Wil Schuemann. Since I only shoot jacketed bullets, this strategy works just fine.

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doubletap!

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I've been using Simple Green some this summer also.
I mixed up a gallon in a milk jug, and have been pouring it in a bucket to let gun parts soak in.

Just a warning- I have heard that it may an enemy of anodizing, so you might be careful there.
I'd like to know if that's true. Anyone?

Another warning of sorts about handling chemicals.
There are some "barrier creams" out there.
Supposedly, you rub it on like hand lotion, and you are protected (from something). Guys at work were using it when working around hydraulic fluid (Skydrol), which is supposedly harmless, but can burn tender areas.
I asked a haz mat guy how much faith he put in barrier creams. His quote was- "None. Nada. Zip. Zero. Ziltch."
Good enough for me.

Not that I'm an expert but I spend several years working in testing labs with industrial chemicals....I have a chemistry degree if that offers any credentials regarding my statements here. First, latex gloves are garbage if your working around chemicals. They are border line dangerous becasue they can give you a false sense of security. They are fine for water based materials and dirt but are useless for solvent based products. Dishwashing gloves? Same thing.

Nitrile gloves provide excellent protection against solvents. Often I would just stock nitrile gloves because people really didn't take the time to think about what they were working with and decide what the appropriate type of protection to use. So err on the side on caution. Nowadays you could find nitrile gloves at the hardware store near the stains, thinners, paints.

Don't forget your safety glasses also, it would suck to save your hands and burn you eyes.

Mr Mustang- Question for you....
I have zero credentials, and only know what I do from mandatory safety classes and some hangar floor rumors.
Is there any truth to what I said earlier regarding the need to change gloves often?

Most people at work got into the habit of changing gloves regularly. This was with most glove types, and while using most chemicals.
To be honest, I think it was a carry-over from respirator/mask filters. We were in the habit of changing those filters often, so changed gloves also.

The Nitrile gloves were said to be resistant to "soak-through", and eliminate any need for that.
But after years of exposure to some chemicals that were thought safe, and later proven otherwise, many chose the "better safe than sorry" approach and still changed gloves regularly.

Was that necessary?

I bought a heated ultrasonic cleaner recently because I've been looking for alternatives to putting my hands in any solvents. I've been using a 1:10 dilution of Simple Green and water. I've cleaned three moderately dirty pistols so far and am pretty satisfied with the results and the concept.

Two of them were stainless and they came out squeaky clean. The third gun was a two-tone hard chrome bottom/black GunCoated top. It cleaned up fine, but the top end coating degraded a little bit from the experience. Where the finish had worn through from holster abrasion suffered in that tiny little spots came loose. Not enough to say it needed refinishing, but you can tell the difference. I don't know that I'd say not to do coated guns, but would advise the owner that there is a risk of finish degradation.
The chrome showed no problems. I guess if you have a plating job that isn't bonded well, you could see lifting of the finish.

I'd not do tritium lamps, as it's not a good idea to soak them in anything. I don't know yet if there's any risk to any loctited assemblies. I don't think so.

Did I say the finished parts were clean? I mean really clean! All my hands got on them was hot water, so that goal was met.

Having to rinse the cleaned parts in hot running water is a bit of a pain, because I don't have hot running water in the same area as my cleaner. The nearest is a bathroom sink, which isn't ideal either. You've got to blow it dry and spritz on a little WD-40 or such.

I will run the Simple Green for a bit more before I try anything new.

I'd love to hear anyone else's experience with ultrasonic cleaning of firearms.

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Ouch, Mr. is my dad but I appreciate the courtesy

Yes, in my opinion changing regularly is important. Luckily I'm out of the lab nowadays due to a job change but I would change my gloves fairly often depending on what I was working with. I primarily used two different types of gloves. You could buy the green niltrile gloves that are lined which could be reused many times. Let me preface that by saying it completely depends on what you are working with and your house keeping procedures. I changed them on a weekly basis. These gloves typically are near elbow length to prevent splashes. Many people cuff them to prevent dripping up your sleeve as well. These are pretty rugged but again, you can't buy one pair and think it will last months. Wear and tear alone can cause unexpected penetration. Depending on your chemicals nitrile is only a barrier, it can break down over time. Often, while wearing the gloves I would wash them off if I planned on reusing them for a longer peroid of time.

You can buy disposble nitrile gloves which are like latex gloves but they are purple. They won't protect your forearms but are decent protection. Personally, latex is for medical professionals and condoms, if your working with chemicals latex has no business anywhere near it. I usually blow into the gloves before putting them on to open them up and make sure they don't have holes.

Definately change often. Good call. Heck, years ago methylene chloride was considered safe and people used to bath in it......not any more. Nowadays you never know what is today's methylene chloride, slip in on before you slip it in and change often.

Thanks, you confirmed some of my suspicions, and made me feel like I wasn't being so paranoid about some others.

I still use tricloroethylene on a regular basis, especially if there is something that I am looking to refinish. It completely degreases and does not leave a film like mineral spirits. I quickly spray off with remoil or wd40 if I'm just cleaning, just to prevent undue oxidation. Certainly keeping these out of your lungs and off your skin is best, but incidental and infrequent contact will not ruin your life! Now for those uf you who clean, you shoud be just as worried about breathing lead dust as you should about these chemicals. I am a neurologist and the effects of longtime exposure to lead are horrendous. I just saw a handloader and longtime shooter in my office, and he basically had lost so much hand strength that he coudn't even grip a jar of pickles. Lead causes a painless loss of strength (motor nerve damage, often without sensory involvement)

Ramptester,
If you reload and handle (with your fingers) a lot of lead bullets ( as opposed to jacketed bullets), how likely are you to get lead poisoning as compared to what you may inhale from shooting the same volume? I assume it's easier to ingest lead through the respiratory system than through skin, but am not sure. I've been told that if you shoot very little on indoor ranges (as compared to outdoor) your risk is very slight. Is that correct?
Thanks!

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The grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do, something to love and something to hope for.

You mean you're actually supposed to clean your guns? I thought they were supposed to be able to go at least 20,000 rounds without maintenance to be considered "reliable."

Dagnabbit! That's just one more friggin' gun expense.

~Jim Keeney

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John,
That's right, as far as the evidence that i have seen suggests. That being said, I think that alot of the guys who shoot in any venue should be more careful about their clothes and hands, as regarding lead residue. Changing clothes promptly before handling your children or sitting on the couch at home is a good idea. Also, washing your hands before leaving the range is vital, especially if you are going to be eating or rubbing your eyes, etc. I don't want to go so far as to suggest that we all wear hazmat masks when we shoot, but some form of breathing filtration would not be a bad idea for the guys putting thousands of rounds downrange every month.
This article that I have linked below has some good info and some incorrect info, but it does outline some of the seemingly innocuous routes of ingestion. The ranges that have a down and forward blowing air duct system are acutally preferable in my opinion to shooting outside. Also, the article mentions washing with cold water to close the pores. Well, if the lead is in the pores, wouldn't you want them open so that you could scrub them out? Anyway, like all info, it must be sifted through for the pertinent and outright wrong. Also, the neurologic effects are not tremors - muscle fiber loss and subsequent weakness is the hallmark.

http://www.utexas.edu/safety/ehs/msds/lead.html

It's kinda funny, but to avoid ingesting lead, I always wash my hands before I have a cigarrette...

_________________
"Suppose they gave a war, and nobody came?
Why then, the war would come to you!"
(Bertolt Brecht)

I use a 3M 8293 P100 Face Mask when I shoot indoors. Eventually with use, that thing gets black.

Excellent tip!

After reading about nitrile on another internet forum a few months back, I decided to give them a try. In Jan. I had to detail strip and clean 30 of my department's 870 riot guns. They hadn't been out of service for a cleaning and inspection in quite some time and were pretty rough. I went to the local Harbor Freight and bought a box of 100 nitrile gloves. They proved quite durable and blocked all the Hoppes, Rem-Oil, and Shooter's Choice I used over a two day period. They allow all the sensitivity of latex gloves which is a plus for handling small parts.

I keep them at the department's range and also at home and now consider them mandatory cleaning equipment.