ltwguns.com

As I wait for my John/Ned pistol to be finished, (Im stuck in Iraq so I don't have much choice other than to wait) I am considering optons for my next project. The pistol will be a full size 1911 in 10mm. I am partial to plain/smooth grip panels, I just think they allow the beauty of the wood to show. I realize that the 10mm will recoil a lot and that the pistol will need good grip surface treatment, IE... Frontstrap and MSH. What Im wondering is has anyone out there had the chance to handle several of the available options such as Conymids, stippling, golfball, sharkskin(Ed Brown type) and checkering? Any opinions on which treatment if any offers the best gripping surface?

Thanks for any input. Matt[/b]

I've only had the chance to try stippling, checkering, and serrations.

I prefer serrations.

_________________
Jeff

Matt-

I'm hoping Jim Keeney will jump in here with his comments because he has and shoots something similar to what you are asking about. Anyway, I recently spent a few minutes shooting his 10MM Commander, loaded with Federal Hydra-Shoks, which has checkering (25 LPI, I think) and smooth grip panels. It was comfortable (to my surprise, actually) and very grippable. (My first experience with the 10MM. It sure does make steel plates ring!, but that's another story)

I personally have 20 LPI checkering, serrations and Don Williams' superb stippling. I have never handled or fired Conymids, golfball, sharkskin or "the wave" (Burns). I have shot 40 LPI checkering. My preference is (in order): Don's stippling, serrations, 40 LPI. But this really is all very subjective, you really need to try 'em all to find out what suits you. If you ever make it to A. P. Hill, you're more than welcome to try out what I have.

_________________
Sic Semper Tyrannis

A recent discussion:

http://www.louderthanwords.us/forum/vie ... php?t=2083

Hey, there's room on a frontstrap for 5/8" wide band of each one....

Ned your probably the only one who would suggest "all of them at the same time" of course you could probably pull it off too.

After reading the previous discussion I guess Im leaning toward stippling, serrations, or conymids. Something not quite as aggressive as checkeing that still provides a good gripping surface. Nobody has mentioned anything about golf ball although it looks rather aggressive. I like the looks of the treatment Ed Brown offers on his "Kobra" pistols as well but don't have any feedback on it's effectiveness.

The good thing is that I have plenty of time to decide. I have 54 more days in Iraq so I don't have to make a decision for at least that long.

There is nothing more tractive than checkering, the coarser the better. Most folks feel that 20 lpi is about as coarse as you can handle for long. I've shot 2 day, 800 round classes with 20 lpi guns in .45 ACP and my palms and fingers were "tingly" at the end, but not bleeding.

There are a lot of folks that feel 20 is too coarse or too snaggy for concealment and have gone the route of either a finer checkering pattern or a different texture alltogether, but 20 line checkering is the "grippiest" of the bunch, IMO.

_________________
shop.HarrisonCustom.com
www.HarrisonCustom.com

The grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do, something to love and something to hope for.

In a way, you can break this down into "practical" and "good looking" categories. 20lpi checkering is grippable...no doubt about that. It is also more fragile than the other treatments you mentioned. If you drop the gun on the checkering, it WILL get marfed up. Serrations are more forgiving, but not as grippy. Having said that, from a "good looking" perspective AND a "practical" perspective, serrations are my choice. Now, having said THAT, the most grippable surface treatment, hands down, is good old skateboard tape! It wears well, and if it does get torn up, you can replace it in about five minutes. Skateboard tape has a lot going for it on a hard use gun.

_________________
Wayne Miller

I have no experience with conamyds or golfball treatment, so I cannot speak from experience on those. I have used 18, 20, 25, 30, and 40lpi checkering and serrations, "tiger tooth" or "shark tooth" stippling, fine stippling, the Heinie scallops, grip tape, and even a rubber/sand concoction. Some have a preference to which they like best, but my experience is that are all do different things with the grip feel and function. Serrations look good and are fairly durable, but they only control the torquing of the gun in recoil for me and still allow it to move vertically if I am not holding on for dear life.

I have 20lpi checkering on my 10mm commander, and even though the gun recoils very sharply and hard, it does not shift much at all. Shooting a .45 with 20lpi all day doesn't bother me, but an extended session with the 10mm commander will leave my paws a little numb, but not raw. FWIW, my hands are pretty tough and calloused due to a lot of weight lifting without gloves. I have 25lpi checkering on my newest .45, and it works very well. My favorite, however, is 30lpi checkering, as it is very good looking, grippable without being abrasive, and doesn't snag nearly as bad as 20lpi on clothing. Unlike many, I do not like 40lpi at all due to it's feel and fragility. The callouses on my hands make it hard to even notice it, and it doesn't dig in enough to keep the gun from slipping on me. Believe it or not, having rough hands actually allows the gun to move more than if they were soft and smooth.

The scallops I shot were on a Heinie Combat Commander, and they seemed only slightly better than a smooth frontstrap. Again, with softer hands that can sink down into the scallops, it might be a better treatment. It really did little for me.

I shot an old bullseye gun that had tiger tooth stippling and it became part of my hand after about 50 rounds. No BS, my hand looked like I had been pricking it with a sharp nail or pins over and over. While this treatment is great for bullseye, it is not good at all for concealed carry as it will snag and/or tear clothing. The fine stippling feels similar to grip tape to me, which I like, but it lacks the classy appearance of checkering. Well-executed stippling can look good, and fills a good niche, but I don't like to use it unless I have a gun that will not allow for checkering.

Now for grip tape... I like it, a lot, but it does not stand up well to the chemicals I use. I clean my guns in a solvent tank and lube them well, and the grip tape begins to peel back in many cases, even when tucked under the grip panels. If you use denatured alcohol to clean the frame before applying it you can get it to hold pretty well, but it is only a temporary fix. It is inexpensive, easy to apply, and very functional for what it is. I simply prefer a permanent texture.

All that being said, I think 30lpi checkering is my favorite combination of looks and function without being a hindrance elsewhere. 25lpi and 20lpi are also very good for me, but I try to use 20lpi only on guns carried outside the waistband and with holsters that have a high backing. To echo the thoughts of others, I think it'd be best to try and shoot a 5" 10mm with some of these treatments to see what suits you. We all hold differently with different pressure and different stances/grips. Every variance will change your take on a specific treatment. What works best on an officer's model in 9mm might not be best for your 6" longslide 10mm.

Get a gun with each treatment, pick the one you like best, and give the rest to me.

GOD Bless.
~Jim Keeney

_________________
"I'd rather die on my feet than keep living on my knees." - Emiliano Zapata, Mexican Revolutionary

O.K. Now it looks like Im down to checkering, 25-30lpi or stippling. Given that this is going to be a target pistol not a carry gun and have a classic two tone finish, Im not sure that stippling will be as pleasing to the eye as nice checkering. Once I get my John/Ned special I will be able to try the Conymids out, who knows they still may be an option.

Thanks for all the good advice, LTW is fantastic.

--53 days and a wake up, Matt

if its definatley going to be a target gun GO WITH THE 20LPI CHECKERING! period.

like most people will tell you. they like it, but its got a lot of disadvantages, which mainly revolve around carry....

For a gun you won't be shooting 1000 rounds in 2 hours with, 20 lpi is fine. I think too many people go to a training class, and after using the gun way more than they would in any normal situation, they get turned off of checkering.

When we're talking about guns that will see moderate use, I don't think there's anything wrong with 20 line checkering. Depending on how soft your hands are, however, there is such a thing as too-sharp 20 lpi. I prefer to have the diamonds dulled just a bit -- if nothing else, it's easier on the clothing and fixtures.

I would think that probably 30lpi would be good. It provides a good grip without being too abrassive. Also, to be considered, if this is to be a carry gun, the finer checkering will not eat your clothes nearly as quickly as 20 lpi.

_________________
Give me a strong, accurate, reliable weapon any day over something pretty that won't shoot.

For those who mentioned checkering as being hard on cover garments, I have found that cover garment damage can be avoided if the front strap is checkered and the MSH is serrated. It also is more positive than serrations on the front strap and MSH.

On my next pistol, I am considering limiting the checkering coverage to about one-third of the front strap so that the areas adjacent to the grip panels and the magazine well opening are smooth. I think that may provide all of the benefits of checkering while being very friendly to cover garments and me.

I have one of John Harrison's guns with 20lpi checkering on the front strap and a Pachmayr rubber-coated MSH that does absolutely no damage to my cover garments. Very unlike a stock Series '70 that regularly ate garments by trapping them between the spur hammer and the grip safety tang.

_________________
Scott