ltwguns.com

I need infromation on how rare these guns are in mint conditon. (I never see any for sale). And idea's on their value. AP3572001@yahoo.com I can send photos of my Swenson and my COmbat special (Pachmayr).

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Ap

You might PM Jason Burton here on this sight. He seems to have those particular pistols down pretty good.

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Heirloom Precision, LLC.
480-804-1911

"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking."
- General George Patton Jr

I seem to remember he asked to see pictures on the other Forum.

DW

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damian@adcofirearms.com
http://www.adcofirearms.com

I would certianly be intersted in seeing pictuers of both... especialy the Swenson.

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Heirloom Precision
http://www.heirloomprecision.com

PM sent

Having owned quite a few Swenson guns, and even a NIB Pachmayr,
I'll be very impressed if you get your asking price. Don't get me wrong, as I really hope you do. I'm one of the few people that wants prices to go up. Not only does it make it so guns can be an investment, but it also makes it easier for current 'smiths to charge a living wage. It seems like America loves to pay commericial machinests $90K a year, unless they work on guns.....

I really appreciate what the last few generations did for the 1911 platform, and believe that they set the standard high compared to thier predecessors. As it is, the current group of working 'smiths are just as inventive, industrious, and imaginative. The biggest difference is that the current crop of 'smiths, unlike any generation before them, has taken all of these traits and added in fanastic machine and finish work.

It seems like they made great guns in the 30s-50s. Then the smiths did really cool stuff from the 60's to the 80s. The pistol smiths of recent and current have combined the two, making the best guns ever. These are the guns worth $4K and $5K. By today's standards, Swenson and the Pachmayr shop were "sloppy" at best. It just wasn't important to them, and the standard was much lower.

As a side note, in my experience, the guns you have for sale would fetch about the same amount of money as a current Les Baer or Ed Brown gun of similar features. Price them like a Kobra or TR Special, and you'll find buyers. Much more, you'll be the collector. YMMV.

Stokes - Good post...

Alex - I truly hope you get your asking price but I have to say good luck. And just so you know its A.D. Swenson not A.B. Swenson.

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Heirloom Precision
http://www.heirloomprecision.com

Alex, nice guns. Can you give us any history on them?

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Gary Eastridge
http://www.randgfirearms.com

The history is this. They were bought from a widow of a collector in SF Bay area. They are both unfired . The 3rd gun that I did not buy was a Novaks Commander also unfired.

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AP

Any reason why you took down your ads?

My ads are still there.

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AP

The ads are where?

Guns America.

Ah yes, thanks Badger, I just found them........

Mr. Stokes,
I must take exception of your characterization of Armand Swenson's work as sloppy at best. I was fortunate enough to be in and out of his shop when he was building 50 .45's for Marcos in the Phillippines and 36 for the Marine Force Recon unit at Camp Pendleton, Calif. Besides his civilian clients he always had time to build a 45 from his cigar box for some soldier, Marine or Sheriff's Deputy who wanted the best money could buy. You could always tell his military or Marcos .45's by the way he worked the lower backstrap. He used a Star loader, bullseye powder and the H&G 68 bullet for all his funtion and accuracy tests. He could shoot off hand better than a machine rest and was proud of the accuracy he could obtain. If you have and unmolested Swenson from the 60's or 70's you have a piece of history, especially if it is one of his military or Marcos contract pistols. I wonder if Jeff Cooper still has his sloppy pistol.

I don't mean to be contrary Mr. Stokes, but I think a lot of Mr. Swenson's pistols and talent. By the way, if you find one of his Mauser 98 22-250's he built I'll pay a lot of money for it.
Walt

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I don't wear horsehide leather, my horse won't put up with it!

Walt,

I'm sorry if my comments on Swenson offended you. I think if you've had a chance to spend that much time in Swenson's as state, you've probably seen more of Swenson's work that I, by leaps and bounds.

As it is, I agree with everything you say.

I'm not sure why you'd take exception to my claim that Swenson's fit and finish work are sloppy at best as compared to today's standards. Since you've said nothing to the contrary (such as "Swensons work IS as tight as today's master pistolsmiths"), I'll have to assume you're not being contrary, but just trying to defend someone against me that I've meant no harm. Your motivation is noble, but doesn't change my opinion, or that of most others.

I wonder if he took exception to your use of the word sloppy. The word can have a very negative connotation. This seems like one of those cases where something gets lost in the translation.

While sloppy may not have been the best word, I understand Stokes point. The Swensons Behlerts and early builders guns were incredible for their time but crude (let the harpoons fly) by todays standards. Like a 60's Shelby compared to a new Ferrari.

I would love to have a Swenson. I own several Behlerts. But they are far different from a Action works or Yo Bo or any of the other modern day customizers full house gun.

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Gary Eastridge
http://www.randgfirearms.com

Armand's neighbor, gun writer Dean Grennell and I shot a few of his 45's before they were delivered to the customer. They ran without a hitch and were far more accurate than we could hold. These were the days when most handgunners had no use for the 45 as they were brainwahed to believe the 45 couldn't hit the side of a barn. Pretty is as pretty does.

I just returned from a visit to Fallbrook, Caifornia as Armands neighbor(Grady) is a shooting and hunting buddy. Mrs. Swenson is still alive and in here 90's . She still lives in the same house and is doing quite well for her age. A lot of people try to contact her in hopes of finding one of Armands old weapons that she kept but she has no interest in selling anything after the horde of helpers that decended on her after Armands death. She lost thousands of dollars because of so called clients and friends removing weapons and machinery they said were really their's.

I guess Mr. Stokes, what's one mans sloppy is another mans piece of historical art. Those of you that just saw the Barrett-Jackson auction remember that the Shelby GT350's and original Cobra's sold for far more money than the Ferrari's.
Walt

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I don't wear horsehide leather, my horse won't put up with it!

I think Jason Burton sums it up pretty well on his website. Read the first paragraph.

http://www.coolgunsite.com/comm_pistols ... wenson.htm

Walt I am envious that you were able to go to Mr. Swensons shop and handle some of his work.

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Gary Eastridge
http://www.randgfirearms.com

I think Swenson and his contemporaries were focused on improving the accuracy, reliability, ergonomics, and appearance of the 1911 -- in that order.

Their customers wanted guns that performed better than a stock Colt. I would suggest that they were more concerned with getting guns that shot well instead of looking great.

Today, the state of the factory 1911 has improved tremendously. The market has fragmented to serve every niche: budget, USPSA, IDPA, "tactical" style, original GI style, and everything in between. Most of them are more accurate than the out-of-the-box Colts that were being turned out in Swenson's day.

There are undoubtedly more 1911 customers today that are willing to pay what it costs to have a gun that is not only accurate and reliable but flawless in appearance. In other words, the demand for pistolsmithing has evolved beyond basic accuracy and reliability, and the market has changed to meet this demand. Customers are more educated as well, and I think it would be tough to do well as a 'smith today if you approached aesthetics the same way the Old School did.

I must say that some smith's of the past wee crude (some very crude).But some (Like Pachmayrs Combat special that I have ) turned out great work in every department. Speaking of that one , I still want some info. on it. (its no longer for sale) .

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AP

Gary,
Thanks for posting the link to Jason Burton's writeup about Mr. Swensons
contributions to todays fighting 1911's. Great article and more than worth the read.
Steve

Saddlemaker,

Can you send me an e-mail (it is in my Profile), I have a quick question for you (on a different subject).

5Shot

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I will never forget you Lou......February 21, 2009

John Ralston
5 SHOT LEATHER, LLC - Finely Crafted Custom Handgun Leather

http://www.5ShotLeather.com