ltwguns.com

A friend of mine has the chance to buy a Jim Hoag Combat Commander, marked on the underside of the slide as #19, from a guy who has NO idea what it is. It is a Series ’70 Combat Commander with the following mods:

-S&W rear sight with ramp front
-Fitted barrel and bushing
-Long trigger
-GI hammer with welded up original grip safety (VERY nicely done, BTW)
-Beveled mag well
-Extended ambi Swenson safety and extended slide release
-Pachy grips with optional free-spinning grip screw bushings (I’m sure those cost extra)
-Hard chrome finish
-95%+ condition.

The gun hasn’t been shot much, but it has NEVER been cleaned. It is WAY oversprung…to the point of causing extraction issues with ball ammo. The guy who currently has it inherited it and just thinks it is another old .45 and has no interest in keeping it. Any idea what this thing might be worth? I am guessing in the $2,000 range. Think I’m close?

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Wayne Miller

I dunno what "free-spinning grip screw bushings" means... but if it means that the bushings are stripped, there's some repair due. If it's a LWT Commander, that's not just an R&R problem, either.

As "big" a name as Jim Hoag has, I don't think I'd give 2G's for what you've described. Jim Hoag is a fine 'smith, but his name isn't BIG like Swenson or Behlert's were. I think he's more at the reputation level of "local gunsmiths" like Eddie Jiminez and Ikey Starks.

I suppose if you're recommending it as a "collector" piece with the old 'original' parts--S&W, Behlert, Hoag beavertail, etc., it might hover at 2,000, but I'd consider that figure pretty generous (especially if the grip bushings need replacing)-- and I'm a Hoag fan--I've got a Hoag gun. Then again, there's guys out there trying to get $5G's for Swensons, so who am I to say $2000 ain't a steal??

I was being facetious regarding the grip screw bushings. They aren't stripped, they just weren't staked.

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Wayne Miller

Hi dork, I couldn't disagree with you more about the stature of Jim Hoag in the custom gun world.

Did you ever see any of his crazy longslide conversions on the covers of GUNS & AMMO magazine from back in the '70s? Some were really long, like 8" or more.

I have read that maybe they didn't function as good as the stuff we have today but they were really something special in their day with fantastic craftsmanship.

Also the gun featured in the Michael Mann directed movie, THIEF which starred James Caan was a Hoag built 6" longslide.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083190/

He is still doing work today. I believe that Jim Hoag rates right alongside Swenson and I've read an article that stated that Hoag's work (like checkering) was superior to the guns built by Mr.Swenson.

Unfortunately I must admit that most of these claims about quality of craftsmanship are only things I've read of, not having had the opportunity to actually handle guns built by either master.

Also we must keep this in the perspective of history as the guns built by the LTW 'smiths are light years ahead of the pioneer's work.

I'd like a chance at buying the pistol described by the OP, if only for the sentimental value of owning a notable early custom Colt.

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Dave
Member NRA

I have a Hoag Longslide built on a Gold Cup and it is very nice. I would rate Hoag's checkering above Swenson any day. Jim Hoag was big influence on my 1911 work. Anyone who says he wasn't a big name, just hasn't been around very long.
Oh by the way my longslide functions very well.

Richard Heinie

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Richard Heinie

Today's prices don't much make sense to me but I'd say you're close - certainly there are pistols I'd consider less desirable going for more - I'd guess the pistol would move fairly quickly in that price range - some would pass it up but somebody would buy it. I'd guess a little less for a quick sale and a little more for a slow sale - so I'd say that's the ball park.

A little paper pedigree that this pistol doesn't have would IMHO cement it as worth $2500 retail for a slow sale.

I wanted a Hoag 6" long slide since they were featured in American Handgunner (still have the issue) and a shooter in my IPSC group in Wyoming had one.

This past year, I had the opportunity to buy the prototypical Hoag long slide on auction - two-tone, squared and checkered trigger guard, checkered front strap and MS housing, lo-mount Bo-Mars, Bar-Sto barrel, Swenson ambis.

If it weren't for the fact that the blue slide shows slightly different shades due to the welding of the slide extension, you couldn't tell that the slide did not start off in one piece.

And mine works just fine.

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No good deed goes unpunished.

I didn't say I thought Hoag's reputation shouldn't have been more well-known, I said "more at the reputation level of 'local gunsmiths'... ". If you poll a bunch of neophyte 1911 fans (especially before the internet), I'd bet some could name Behlert and Swenson, but they probably couldn't have named 'Jim Hoag from Canoga Park' for you. Hell, there's folks out there who consider themselves fanatics who ain't heard of Wilson, Brown, and Baer.

I LIKE Jim Hoag's work more than a LOT of nationally-reputed smiths. I've either owned or inspected guns built by most of the big-name smiths I can think of, and his is one of only three I chose to buy and KEEP over the long-term. That says something in itself, considering that the advances in CNC machining and CAM/CAD design that came out after my Hoag gun's delivery couldn't trump his work.

Well, my friend ended up buying this gun for $750. This weekend, I took it down to the last pin to clean it up and look it over. Pretty impressive work. The S&W rear sight is extremely well done, but the barrel fit is nothing short of superb. Mr. Hoag welded a pad on the barrel hood to tighten lock up, and the barrel bushing is JUST finger tight. As far as I can tell, this gun has NEVER been apart or cleaned since it was built. Not only was it filthy, there was still Dykem on the barrel and grip safety from fitting! While I had it apart, I replaced the rather cheesy long triger (with rivets showing) with a new, short, Greider trigger. The trigger pull on this gun is "OK". Looking at the hammer and the sear, they don't look like they have even been touched; they still look factory. I didn't think to measure the hammer hooks. Shame on me. I also replaced the recoil and firing pin spring. I don't know what weight was in it, but it was entirely over sprung.

Since three of the four grip screw bushings came out with the grip screws, I made sure they were secured red Loctite. This gun deserved a bit more class than the Pachys that were on it, so I dug through my 1911 parts box and found a set of McCormick Cocobolo Diamond Screw grips and some allen-head grip screws. All in all, I think it turned out well. If it were my gun, there are a few things I might change, but, overall, it is a pretty nice package.

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Wayne Miller