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 Post subject: Milling slide grooves?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:45 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:15 am
Posts: 435
I've never seen forward grasping grooves added to a Colt that are "exactly" the same as the factory ones on the rear of the slide. Is it not possible to duplicate these grooves precisely? If so, why?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:38 am 
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Umm,....
http://www.louderthanwords.us/forum/vie ... php?t=2483

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:51 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:58 pm
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Location: SE Michigan
They still don't look exactly the same, the front serrations look slightly wider.... :(


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:18 pm 
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Location: Duncansville, PA
I am quite certain you guys are basing these observations on photos. Since in pics you get one end of the gun or the other is most always closer to the lens you get the appearance that they are not the same when in fact they are. Not to mention when the light is reflecting off some of the surafaces it makes it very hard to tell in photos.


Dan

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:28 pm 
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The front serrations I've physically seen and seen photos of are "always" wider. I have never seen the deep narrow factory serrations performed outside of the factory. Is it a special attachment that only factory has? Is it that much more difficult?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:51 pm 
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I've handled guns by the very best in the business. Those that had serrations added, matched the originals. I don't know what guns you've handled personally, or who your resources are, but I am here to tell you that the fact that you haven't seen matching front/rear slide serrations from a gunsmiths bench means very little. Your persistant implying that all of the guns you have seen (including those within this site) have mismatched serrations is a bit insulting, don't you think?

DW

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:12 pm 
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I think you've only seen all the rest and not the best. My custom was made by one of the members of LTW and even though my serrations were factory CNC'ed, he still hand filed them to clean out the lines and made them consistent. Likelihood, if you chose someone from here to do it, that issue will not occur. You will get the attention to detail that you paid for.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:00 pm 
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I haven't handled all that many custom guns. However, we've all seen lots of pictures of front cocking serrations made by the LTW Crew. All of them look like they perfectly match the rear cocking serrations. In short, I don't think most of us know what you're talking about. All the guns look like they match extraordinarily well. I agree with Damian. Don't you think such comments are insulting and grossly inappropriate? :roll:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:16 am 
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Location: Fate, Texas
I prefer to not have front cocking serrations. I guess I'll never own a pistol that has this perceived problem.....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:01 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:40 pm
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Location: Durango, CO
Dan Burwell has it right. Light in photos has a lot, maybe everything, to do with perfectly matched serrations looking different in photos. This is especially true of Colt/GI style serrations. It is tough to really judge without holding the specimen in your hand.

Can they be matched perfectly? YES, and I believe any of the LTW smiths, and other competent ones, are more than capable.

There is nothing special about how the factory does it....it's not like they're EDM'd, broached, or deep hole through coolant gun drilled....the laws of physics and machining are not suspended over Hartford, CT. :wink: Spacing, angle, depth of cut, and cutter type, along with proper speeds/feeds and setup/workholding, are the key. Often, the serrations we cut have a surface finish that is much better than factory, which can also contribute to them looking "different".

Are they always matched perfectly in the larger gunsmithing industry? Absolutely not. This depends on the competency and sometimes the equipment of the smith in question. So it is quite possible you have examined examples in which the serrations were truly different. Additionally, some smiths are using a cutter that does not properly match Colt specs, past or present. I've seen many interpretations come through the shop.

But worse than a slight difference in angle or spacing, to me the worst cocking serration boo boo is when the last serration towards the muzzle end is wider on one side than the other, indicating a lack of precision in set up. (Or perhaps I should say a lack of indicating :wink: )


I hope this sheds some light and puts this to bed...... 8)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:57 am 
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Well said, my friend.

DW

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:57 am 
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Ouch, I go hunting for a few days and I get hammered!

The first law of communication is that the responsibility of communication is on the communicator and not on the audience and obviously I did not communicate my questions very well because I would never "insult" anyone on this forum especially any of the LTW smiths! I am not by any means a know-it-all or a know-much-of-anything. The reason I frequent this forum is because I "HIGHLY" respect the smiths and most of the members.

In my post I don't recall ever presenting myself as any sort of expert on cocking serrations or milling. If I was I would not be asking my simple and direct question. If you look at the LTW Photo gallery or any of the LTW smiths personal websights excluding one which my computer would not work with as I recall there are no examples of any forward cocking serrations on any of their guns this sight or otherwise on factory colts that are photographed to prominently display the forward cocking serrations with the exception of Mr. Rogers and his are absolutely perfect. The other smiths images do not display these. Which actually says alot to me about how important forward cocking serrations are most likely. But in my LIMITED experience I have not seen many images or held any that match.

I just spent several grand with one of the TOP rated gunsmiths that you all know and NOT an LTW smith who did serrations on my VERY expensisve gun that did not match in width or even in angle.

I was not sure if with my LIMITED knowledge if forward cocking serrations were supposed to be different because they were PUSHED instead of PULLED (which from an ergonomic point of view would be reasonable). Or if the manufacturers at Colt had custom milling equpiment that was unavailable to private gunsmiths. Because I did NOT KNOW I was asking. If this insulted anyone it was not intended to. I simply did not understand something in my LIMITED knowledge so I asked in maybe a much too succinct way. My apologies to anyone who took offense.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:43 am 
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Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 5:47 pm
Posts: 506
Location: Rapidan (Orange County), Va
45Fundi,

Your apology means a lot, and I apologize to you on behalf of anyone who feels the same for any misunderstandings. I think it came from you saying they were "always" different, and considering the number of photos on this site where the front serrations have been machined to match, it came across as a pointed comment. Either way, no harm, no foul.

I'm sorry for your bad experience with the "other" 'smith. I, too, have had similar experiences (a few), and now realize why finding a gunsmith who serves you well and satisfies your needs is such a blessing.

Have a safe, merry, and blessed Christmas.

~Jim Keeney

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 12:24 pm 
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45Fundi,

I appreciate you taking the time to communicate a bit more clearly. The first post was actually pretty clear. It was the second that made things a bit more foggy for me. It came across as a bit pushy and sarcastic. Unfortunately, clear communication in written word often requires a whole heckuva lot of keystrokes--much more detail than spoken word. I am glad that I misunderstood you, as this community means so much to me. Thank you. I apologize for any part I played in the miscommunication.

Suffice it to say that it really isn't that difficult with the proper tools, experience and care. I am sorry that you received poorly milled serrations from your gunsmith. I, too, once had a bad experience with a known gunsmith who is backed by a legendary "gun fighter". I never bad mouthed him. I never publicly shared pictures or descriptions of what happened. I just sold it so that I didn't have to look at it. To his credit, though, it was 100% reliable.

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