ltwguns.com

My apologies if this falls in the realm of a price check, but I don't think it does.

I've been lurking for a while and finally found a reason to post, as I'm trying to wrap my head around the possibilites for a commander-length 9mm custom. Specifically, the economics of a Caspian frame/slide vs a Combat Commander for a custom build by one of the several LTW 'smiths whose work I've been drooling over.

Colt Combat Commanders in 9mm have gotten kind of crazy around here lately. I've never even seen one in person under $1200 and nice ones are even higher.

In the Caspian realm, pricing it off their website, including hand-fitting, sight cuts, beavertail cut (though that would depend on the gunsmith's preferences, of course), the total is right around $625 (carbon).

Either one would go in for an understated look, something like the carry packages offered by several LTW folk - a great range/training class kind of pistol.

That's where my ignorance of what goes into building/customizing takes over - would the amount of work that goes into fitting, internals (those not usually replaced during customization) and prepping for finish (and other steps I know nothing of) possibly render the Colt a more economical choice?

Sorry if this is too broad of a question, I don't want to take up any specific gunsmith's time until I've done as much reading and thinking as I can.

Thanks for any advice,
Matt Powell

Matt, I'm not a gunsmith, but I recently comissioned a local smith to build a commander size Caspian and the total for the frame, slide & parts, not including fitting was well over $1,000. I will say that the parts I spect'd are top of the line, bullet proof parts.
Marsh

I paid over $1,200 for the one I just posted above - worth every penny!

_________________
http://www.landsharkleather.com/
Building Hand Crafted Leather for the 1911 Platform

I retail the higher end 1911's, the top three shops, and have been dealing with the one man shops for many years. I have learned from making many "price" choices over "value" choices that "best price" in not the driving factor in a well made product or good value. So what I say is from me making @$$ mistakes and watching countless others do the same. Buy best value not best price.

Now qualify it with this, production pieces are good and work within what they were designed for. Basic function.

If you want anything else will cost you. Everything has a cost because if there is a discount your undying gratitude has nothing to do with it.

Cost is not only money, cost is actual time to build, length of waiting list to get to your project, experience, skill, research, and a few other intangibles. such as trust, reputation and integrity.

Quality of components; time invested in the building of the product; skill level of the craftsman; reputation of the shop; and a few other things I sent to you by PM.

There are components made to standard specs, then there are components made to the highest level of quality. Which cost more. What is the best value. Production guns make good starting points and work well but what does the craftsman you trust say. I am certainly not going to invest $3K worth of skill in a Rock Island, (not to be confused with Rock River) Caspian makes many levels of frame. Some average and some higher quality.

Others say you are paying for a name, so what. The name and reputation is earned, not given.

Now factor that on skill level of craftsman, One making $5 will not do the job of one making $50 an hour. A comparison is a doctor who just got his license and was at the bottom of the class, then a doctor who graduated top of his class with years of experience. Who do you want for your brain surgery. Your choice.

Some costs are variable as well as intangible in nature.

Alex Hamilton, who writes for Handgunner stated words to the effect and I should have the context correct, "to be a good successful gunsmith you have to be a good businessman also."

So keep in mind will the craftsman be in business tommorrow or two or however many years from now when your "treasure" is done.

If there is a waiting list, there is a reason.

Remember what I mentioned about a "discount" there is always a reason.

Just some thoughts.

_________________
Be safe and keep the brass flying

Terry Peters

Do your research but you get what you pay for front end or back end
http://www.pt-partners.com
@ptpartners_tx

_________________
"There is a true glory and a true honor, the glory of duty done, the honor of integrity and principle."--Gen. Robert Edward Lee

Thank you for the advice - I'm definitely on board with the value vs. price argument. When I first started buying firearms I bought too many of similar value and capabilities. Then I realized that what I desired were fewer of the best that I could come by.

I think the process of putting together the parts and having them built up will be infinately more satisfying than buying a Colt 9mm Commander although finding a good deal on one is very satisfying

Terry, I see your point, but the unfortunate thing is that the more experienced physician will receive exactly the same as the new graduate. (sorry about the rant) Man, I love those 9mm commanders!

Most Colt Commanders in 9mm that I've seen lately have been priced beyond what the components out of the pistol that would be kept for a build would be priced if they were bought from Brownells and Caspian (for example). Once upon a time? Maybe. At this point, I've pretty much decided that any full-house gun that I ever have built will be built from the ground up with frame and slide from Caspian or Rock River and most small parts from the same or from Wilson, Brown, or STI through Brownells. Depending on the gunsmith in question, he might not upcharge you much on the parts. Also depending on the gunsmith, you might be able to provide your own parts and, if this is the case, you might be able to get everything at dealer cost if you have the right friends or have your own FFL.

To answer your question shortly, however, I'd just go with the custom components. I bet that the price will be within $100 or so of buying the Colt Commander and throwing some parts away and providing new, anyway. Add to it that, IMHO, you'll probably be getting a better slide and frame than you would if you used the Colt as a base. Opinions will vary, however, as people just LOVE seeing that little horse...

Oh, yeah...

I can't say that I agree with Terry totally on stuff but, in essence, he's right. If you're going to go ahead and do a custom pistol, don't try to skimp on the money. You're doing it because you want something different than what other people have and because you want more perceived quality as well as, probably, just wanting things done the way YOU want them done instead of how the factory does them. Why should you skimp? If the price is too high, wait a little longer and save a little more and then get your dream gun.

I have never regretted my bigger purchases in the gun world but have almost always had misgivings when I tried to cut costs overly much.

I have 2 Caspains and both ran well over 1K and they are not all that tricked out. I do believe that in resale a Colt would win over a Caspian but that Caspian is value. Most smith would rather have you just send them a frame and bald slide they would rather do it their way.

_________________
The only place you will find success without hard work is in the dictionary

One of my long term clients finished one of the courses on building 1911's that was offered several years ago. I have known the guy for about 10 years.

He wanted a "one of a kind" to pass to his son. Something from him and the reasons are his own.

He built one extremely fine detailed piece, and it is a very, very, very, nice piece. He stated the time spent man hours, was in the neighborhood of 80 hours. With parts all high end and waiting to get the single part from what ever supplier had the single part at dealer took about a year to get everything. Yes, at dealer price, from friends and me. Two frames were sent back because they were as described by the maker. (I do not name makers as way too much on forums is miss communication or out of context). The total project took just under three years.

He knows what and why the experienced established craftsman go through to get where he is

He has something he can be very, very, proud of and intends to hand down to his son, when the time is right.

Point being, take your time and get what you want.

I only wish I had the patience, skill, and not to mention devotion to detail but he did his research, and got what he paid for and got exactly what he wanted.

I know this, every time I had saved due to price, not value it cost me later. No matter what, insulation, car repair, factory ammunition, reloading material, equipment and training for my full time job, firearms, skilled professionals for opinions and work.

Just some more thoughts.

_________________
Be safe and keep the brass flying

Terry Peters

Do your research but you get what you pay for front end or back end
http://www.pt-partners.com
@ptpartners_tx