ltwguns.com

I am early in my planning. Really early. As in, I have never even owned a Hi Power. My experience with the firearm is a friend of my best shooting buddy owns one, and I shot his a few times; pretty sure it's a plain Jane off the shelf Browning Hi Power. I really like it and shot well with it. Is there anything I should look for when purchasing a Hi Power, or is any Browning/FN going to pretty much be the same after a smith works his magic? For what it's worth, there were many to choose from on the Internet until a couple of weeks ago, the pickings have gotten slim since talks of gun bans. Thank you in advance.

If it is a "carry a lot and shoot a little" gun, any will do. Any FN, that is. I would not go to the effort on a clone/copy.

If you plan on actually putting volume through it, settle only for a MkIII. The cast frame of the MkIII (the obvious clue is the mag well area; MkIIIs will have grooves on the bottom of the frame) holds up much better than the old forged frames do.

I have a Novak-built MKIII with 23,000+ rounds through it, two malfs total (both magazine-caused) and no breakages.

Thank you. I will look for a MK3, I like to shoot my guns. I had 3 located online before I posted this question, all are sold now! I am in no hurry though and appreciate your input.

I'm perhaps the last person to disagree with PSweeney, but I've read through the years that the FEG 9HP was a top quality GP. FEG also made a model that was less "cloney" and hence not as preferred. Am I wrong?

I believe the MKIII allows you to have the best trigger as well...different geometry IIRC.

_________________
I will never forget you Lou......February 21, 2009

John Ralston
5 SHOT LEATHER, LLC - Finely Crafted Custom Handgun Leather

http://www.5ShotLeather.com

I'm with Mr Sweeney. No FEG's for me thanks.

_________________
Don Williams
http://www.theactionworks.com
http://www.ltwguns.com

I yield to the consensus

So guys tell me why are cast FNs better then forged? Isn't the common wisdom that forge is better in most other guns??

_________________
http://www.landsharkleather.com/
Building Hand Crafted Leather for the 1911 Platform

I saw an old Belgium made BHP that was near mint condition. The owner told me not one round was fired through it. It was gorgeous and would be perfect for a build if you're willing to butcher it's original beauty. Too bad it wasn't for sale. I'll need to keep dropping hints I'm interested.

I will let someone who really knows give you an answer, but I do know this...you can cast or forge crappy soft steel and not give it proper heat treatment. The opposite is also true. For example, Ruger is NOT known for soft, cast frames on their revolvers.

_________________
I will never forget you Lou......February 21, 2009

John Ralston
5 SHOT LEATHER, LLC - Finely Crafted Custom Handgun Leather

http://www.5ShotLeather.com

The Hi-Power frame is a bit of trouble to machine, and when FN wanted to offer a 40 S&W version, they quickly found out that their softer traditional forged frames weren't up to the task, so they decided to go with a harder investment cast frame, and as well, make the slide a bit harder as well.

_________________
Don Williams
http://www.theactionworks.com
http://www.ltwguns.com

I agree, any manufacturing process can be done poorly. And some like MIM and casting which tend to give great economy, well, sometimes I think manufacturers tend to just go too far with the economy bit and cross over into cheezy, and that's when a given process starts to get a bad rap.

Bear in mind that space shuttle brake light housings and window cranks are castings.

What they said.

Simple answer; in 1935, no-one thought in terms of tens of thousands of rounds per gun. The P-35 frame requires removing 95% of the steel out of the forging, and if you start with hard steel the cost in cutting tools is horrific.

The 40SW was utterly unforgiving to those frames, going "toes up" in 2,500 rounds.

So, a harder alloy got the nod, in a cast frame, with the final dimensions in some areas being finish-machined.

Question for you guys who really have a hard time with castings, sintering, MIM, etc -
How do you think the blades of jet engines are made?

Forged in a furnace powered by unicorn farts and tofu?

Look up single crystal (SC) and directional solidification (DS) castings.

Good point. Having flown military helicopters for the better part of 25 years, this surely affords a useful talking point when confronted with the "you need to get all of the MIM out of your Wilson at all costs" crowd. Granted, no one is arguing against tool steel and the like, and internals have only gotten better and better with time, but there is still a lot of silliness rattling around in folks' heads sometimes.

Semi-related sidebar: I've always wondered, for no particular reason, about the HPs produced during the war; the ones that ultimately wore Waffenamts, and ended-up being carried by guys wearing Feldgrau, rather than OD. Have seen my share of them, I suppose, but never really done the research or done any direct comparisons. Are these typical HPs of their era? A bit rougher, for obvious reasons? Suspect in any way? We're not really talking about base gun prospects here; just wondering if there is anything unusual or noteworthy about them aside from the Reich hieroglyphics they carry.

HPs are obviously a field of study unto themselves, given all of the variants, service chronologies and hands involved in producing them over the years. It's only mildly less-confusing to me than trying to sort out a FAL, actually. Once upon a time, I remember that Steve Camp was the man with more HP answers on tap than any reasonable man could ever hope to ask. Not sure where the contemporary knowledge base might lie today. Interesting guns, to be sure.

_________________
Stand your ground; don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here. -- Captain John Parker, Lexington, 1775.

As I understand it according to "The Browning Hi-Power Pistol Automatic Pistol" by R. Blake Stevens, once the Nazis took over the Belgian FN factory, production proceeded pretty much as it was until later in the war when things started to become a bit dicey for the Germans. Production was then speeded up with a loss of quality regarding finish and appearance, the mag safety was done away with and this pretty much continued up till the end of the war. I would assume therefore that production date during the conflict would have a lot to do with quality.

_________________
Don Williams
http://www.theactionworks.com
http://www.ltwguns.com

And I've been a passenger in and jumped out of those helos for the better part of 33 years. Gone up a lot more times than I've come down in 'em. Still, I must admit that I much prefer tool steel parts in my guns. I am not afraid of MIM, but I don't think that it is quite up to snuff for gun parts just yet. And I'm a bit of a traditionalist anyway.

I'm with you on the MIM thing, obviously, but we're generally talking about guns built to best-in-class standards around these parts, so the point is probably moot. I'm thinking more of the guy with a 2001-vintage WC CQB (or whatever) who is worrying himself to death over whether or not his MIM internals are cracking in the dead of the night. Prevention may be worth a pound of cure, but not all MIM is created equal.

Oddly enough, for all of the many, many (easily hundreds of) paradrop missions that I've done over the years in multiple platforms as a pilot, I've never actually jumped a rotary-wing aircraft myself. C-130, -141, -5, -17, sure ... but no Huey, Black Hawk or Chinook blasts.

Go figure.

_________________
Stand your ground; don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here. -- Captain John Parker, Lexington, 1775.

Every smith I have ever talked to said Browning or FN only for their work. I sent a BHP to Morisson for a little custom work, and can't wait to get it back. The stock trigger is God awful though.

Pardon my ignorance on Hi Powers, but how would I indentify a Mk III?

_________________
Steve

Steve, MKIII's have both sights dovetailed in the slide as opposed to the earlier models which had a front sight that was fixed in place (silver soldered and/or staked) or was actually part of the slide (MK II with the narrow rib on top of the slide). The MK III's with the harder cast frames are easily identified by looking at the bottom of the frame; the frame area around the magazine well has front to rear serrations around the mag well opening. Good Luck on your search.

_________________
Don Williams
http://www.theactionworks.com
http://www.ltwguns.com