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 Post subject: How low can we go?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 7:36 pm 
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This is something I snuck in several months ago, just got it back from refinish, and although it is not quite 100% complete still, it's done enough for a few pics.

The idea was to see how low I could get a 1911 in the hand. Alex Zimmermann and I have discussed this off and on in recent years, and, anyway, this is my take on it. I think I could go lower still actually, but not too much. Won't be surprised if Alex woops up something that beats it, if he can find the time. That's always the problem isn't it? I know a lot of us come up with ideas that could be something, but finding the time and money to try it and get it rolling is always a major hurdle.

In a nutshell, I came by a cheap 1911 where the top end had basically been destroyed, and the frame damaged, by somebody starting at the base of the gunsmithing learning curve. Not the kind of thing I normally would have any interest in, but I decided I could use the frame as a test mule and finally give this idea a try. With this frame, I could cut and weld and bend and recut and reweld; it was something I could scrap out and not have to worry about atoning for if St. Petersstahl should question me about it. The first whack at it went fine and I thought, dang, I should make a gun out of this. I started gathering up parts-- some take-offs, a slide I had botched the sight cut on and replaced for the customer, and a .355 Hybrid Commander barrel I bought from California Competition Works at the last Second Chance shoot. The latter two I'd been saving for myself as I have for some time wanted to put together a 9mm steel gun.

So-- here are some pics, more comments later. For comparison, one pic has a 1911 with a pretty high-cut Ed Brown grip safety installed, another pic shows a bone-stock Colt. This gun is at least 1/2" higher than stock.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:01 pm 
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Next stop, The Twilight Zone......


Ned, as usuual, just stuckin' funning :shock:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:05 pm 
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Very interesting. Not to mention...WOW... :shock: It amazes me to see what you guys pump out in your spare time. Beautiful work...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:40 pm 
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Looks almost identical to my Jim Boland Pin Gun backstrap treatment circa 1990 or so. 8)

I am more interested in the thumb safety..whats the story there?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 10:42 pm 
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Anthony, here's the scoop on the safety, but in return I'd love to see a pic of that Boland. That guy had some skill and imagination now..... but I believe his work was not seen very much outside of CA.

In the process of making this super-high, well, the safety pivot hole was removed. I mean, that part of the frame is gone, so, now the safety pivots from the front. It extends forward, and there's a new hole in the frame at about 10:00 from the grip screw bushing. The arm of it has a little round protrusion that drops into this hole, and it's held on by the grip. The new safety is fabbed from an old safety and an old slide stop for the extension arm.

I came into a bunch of G10, but it's an ugly faded green. Chris at Blind Hogg was kind enough to make a few sets of grips for me, and this is one of them, made ultra thin and then grooved. Then I dyed them black.... the dye only penetrates a few thousandths. I then sanded the outside back to light green, and then dyed them dark green, so they are sorta dark green with the grooves black.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 8:07 am 
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His Nedliness has done it again.

You forgot to mention that your shooting hand grips the gun so high that you pull the trigger with your pinky finger.........

Ted, we GOTTA get him out of Michigan and down range with the rest of us. He's spending WAY to much time indoors during those winters up there!

Seriously Ned, that's quite the neat project there, dude!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 9:15 am 
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Ned, you never cease to amaze me. You weren't just thinking outside the box on this project - you destroyed that box and stomped it into little bits!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 5:10 pm 
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Very interesting concept and nice execution.

Even with the high-cut front strap, doesn't it tend to point high?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 5:48 pm 
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Glad you guys like it. Part of me has been anxious to spring it, the other part said waiy and put it on the table at SHOT.

It does not point high for me, but I am still getting used to the Optima. I shot several pin matches with it last winter after it was mechanically ready and always had trouble finding the dot for the first pin. After that things went pretty fast and the only real trouble was the risk of starting the ceiling tiles on fire.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 8:08 am 
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Wow....that is fantastic bit of work..very very nice

very reminiscent of Jim Boland's work
Image

are you going to offer that or was this an experiment??


Last edited by eerw on Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 8:12 am 
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Ned,
Amazing how that mensa dome of yours works. My grape isn't wired that way. Amazing work. I sure hope you bring this one to Shot, the gun would absolutely be worth the trip.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 12:59 pm 
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Steve, just never drink anything that's not on the top shelf :lol:

eerw, thanks for the pic. Jim Boland never got the recognition he deserved as far as I'm concerned, or if he did, I just missed it. In '84 I sorta got hooked up with a contingent of CA shooters who came to Second Chance and cleaned up. Real nice buncha guys whose presence nicely rounded out the cross-section of shooters that made the match so interesting. Some of them were using Boland guns for some of the events, they were big fans of his and seeing some of his stuff, I was amazed that his work seemed so, I don't know, California-only.

Bill Palazzolo (of California Competition Works) had a Boland .45 with an outsized comp, it was probably 1 5/16 wide. Rich Wilbur had a .38 Super (I think) with a mod like the one you posted. It was an aluminum frame gun and he used it in the 9-pin event to good effect.

Wish I coulda met Jim Boland. Drove by his shop once but it was Sunday I guess. Anybody know his status these days?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:25 pm 
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Ned

Did you move the firing pin retaining plate forward?

Richard

(the crazy guy from Hawaii with the cracked defender and the bad attitude)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:23 am 
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Ned, I see you finally got the gun blued. I shot this gun when it was in the white, and have some photos of it being fired. It is wicked fast in cycling without being so snappy it seems like it it trying to turn and bite you, as so many IPSC guns seem to be.

If you think the Nedster is creative on this one, you never saw his Makarov 9-Pin gun. The one that used a spatula as a comp. At Second Chance, a place where experimenting ran wild, Ned always had the wildest. And where the rest of us showed up with "frankenguns," ugly experimentals, Ned came with guns that looked good.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:26 am 
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Good God Ned, that's amazing.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:55 am 
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One word Ned........"Genius", you never cease to amaze me. I don't allways like your style, but your execution is of legendary status. My tastes are more traditional, but I allways just sit at the computer and stare in amazement when I see your work. I've got this idea in my head for a frontstrap and mainspring treatment, just not real sure how to make it happen. Maybe you can help me figure it out? Thanks for the help on the Win. 97 mag. tubing, got it the next day!!! Now to get to work on it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:28 am 
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Hi Smiley-- glad to help with the tubing.

Well, this gun is not exactly "me" either, I mean, it's my first-ever dot-sighted, compensated, centerfire handgun..... I never really got big into game guns personally and don't get a lot of requests for that kind of work.

But I had been sorta hankering for something like this and have I had fun with it!

Couple more tech details BTW, the mainspring housing is a Caspian cast aluminum one for their hi-cap frame, so it has a little forward step allowing me to cut into the rear web of the frame's mag chute towards the little slot that retains the sear spring..... in the bottom of this cut then, the step in the MSH comes to rest. This allows one to open the magwell way out in back without getting a knife-edge of steel on the web. I had bought one of these MSH's seeing that it has the step in it that I usually fabricate onto an MSH for this purpose. It does not go as deep as I'd like into the frame, so I never used it and continue to modify existing MSH's, or, when an aluminum one is called for, I make it from scratch. But the theme of this gun was to use as many existing, lay-around parts as possible and to keep it something I could put together keeping the time and money as low as possible.

The beavertail is a piece made from scratch and T-slotted into the frame. My original intent was to leave it as a separate part, but I found that even with it in place, I could still wrangle all the guts in and out, so I silvered it in place.

The piece between the beavertail and MSH is just machined out of 7075 aluminum, and heeled in under the beavertail on top, then retained on the bottom by the top of the MSH, the part that usually stops the rearward movment of the grip safety.

The magwell's made from scratch and silvered on. Richard, no, there's nothing different about the firing pin stop other than having been cut off a little on top. eerw, you asked if it was experimental or would I be offering it? Both, sorta. Actually I am having "experimental" engraved on it just for the hell of it, but, yes, I would do it as a custom mod ( but have not really considered what to charge), and have spoken to some folks about doing frames for me and plan on talking to some more at SHOT, but don't read too much into this.

The comp is machined from 7075 also, and had a slight, ah, booboo in it. The diameter of the expansion chamber sorta collided with the the flat on the bottom, me in my enthusiastic rush having failed to consider this relationship. The result-- a window in the floor of the comp. But no biggie, really-- the recoil spring plug has a flat piece silvered to the top of it to fill the gap between the slide's barrel bore and recoil spring tunnel, so when the gun's in battery, the window is closed by this flat piece. It's pretty much a no-gap fit so it seals it good enough; anyway, after the barrel ports I don't think the comp is getting as pressurized as it otherwise might and is probably contributing very little to the overall recoil and flip reduction. This flat piece gets a little sooted and fouled up where it's exposed to the gasses, but not so bad that it'll interfere with functioning, at least not it 200 rounds or so.

I sent it to Ford's for refinishing. I wanted something that would cover the silver joints well, that meant nickel, and I wanted something that would plate the aluminum parts equally as well as the steel. Horace told me "Watts bath" which I gather is regular old nickel electro-plate, the kind you'd find on a Colt or Smith& Wesson, with copper plate under it as a base. This gun I believe has electoless nickel under the electro plate. Indeed it is impossible to tell the dif between the steel and aluminum parts, and coverage was 100%, I mean even in the holes. A very, very nice looking finish. I had them blue the slide and a few other little parts. Nickel is not as "white" as chrome, which i think some people don't like. I'm not expecially partial to either one, they both have their cosmetic and functional advantages, but the nickel looks a little "warmer" to me.

The Optima is mounted to a short length of Weaver rail that is simply machined into the top of the slide. There is a 1/8" pin hidden under there to locate it and keep it from migrating forward.

Patrick, oh for a selector switch on this one, eh?


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 Post subject: Holy Space Ghost....
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 3:46 pm 
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That is a Wild looking Gun...
I like the look of the rear sight picture until
I seen the side view, I guess just not seeing the flattend top of the
slide to match... But hey the Comp looks Great .
and I agree with EERW does have a lot of looks of the Boland guns
and I there is one other Ummm Paul Lienbenberg...

over all one very Different great looking gun...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:19 am 
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Ned, if that one had a selector switch on it, it would still be in Illinois. (Ned showed this gun, in the white, to some LEO friends of ours while on a teaching trip near Chicago.)

If I can figure out how to post, I'll drag out the photos I took of the session and see if any would be of interest.


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 Post subject: special low 1911
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:13 pm 
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Ned, I am not surprised to see the genius in you. That is a brilliant piece of work and I loved every pic of it.

Speaking of Jim Boland. I spent alot of time with him in various places and always marvelled at his intelligence at new ideas. I have pics here somewhere which he gave me of high speed photography showing a bullet leaving a comp and stopped at a hundreth of a second or some fantastic figure. Some people called him a nut but I always praised him.

I remember when he was ordering my 1911 drop in hammer sears sets and told me he got the pull down to 1 1/2 lbs without a follow. He asked me how I figured the slot angle so well and I had to admit it was an accident


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 8:28 pm 
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I really appreciate that, Austin. I really would not be stretching things to say, "you helped".

Interesting about Jim Boland. Could you hazard a guess as to how old he might be today?

High speed photography, let me tell you, if I win the Lotto, the first thing I'm doing is going out and getting a setup for that. It has always fascinated me, and there are so many things I'd like to see proved/disproved!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:47 am 
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I'm not trying to perpetuate this thread but had a few more pics. In the first pics I purposely kinda avoided the front end as the comp was not completely finished and engraved. Got it back and here are the final pics, which are not very good compared to the others, and of course, way below That Bailey Fellow's standards, but OK enough to show the engraving. The left side logo is the customer's monogram.... even though this is sorta my gun, it is sorta also for a customer.

Image

Image


Last edited by Ned Christiansen on Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:14 am 
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You know some people are content to have a fast and nice imported cars, Harley Davidson motorcycles, a mansion, high end watches, and other things of status. For me, all I desire are custom 1911s. Of all the money I have I have spent on custom 1911s, I could have had any one of those aforementioned things (except maybe the mansion), maybe even several. It doesnt get any better then the custom 1911; Ned, that is one of the most awesome 1911s I have ever seen.

I wish I had the money to buy any and all of the custom 1911s I run across that I have a desire to own and that would be many in addition to what I have. I think I have a decade of projects at ted's shop now and am planning on somemore projects with some other smiths now. Everyone of these is a piece of artistry. I am awed by the craftsmanship and attention to detail anytime I pick one of my custom 1911s up. I am truly a happy man.... I would be even happier if I could acquire more!!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:06 am 
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Jed Clampet/ Whoooo doggy! /Jed Clampet

Hope you're bringing that one to SHOT, Ned. I need to have a gander at it......

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:46 am 
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I'm with Tim, I'd sure like to get a up close & personal look at that one too! WOW :shock: that is something else!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 7:39 am 
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Ned, you're an ANIMAL!

Bring extra beach towels for the display to wipe all the drool off this thing.

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