ltwguns.com

Greetings,

I've been lurking here for the past two months reading anything and everything I can about 1911s. I just sold my Kimber and am looking for a new pistol. I had pretty much decided on a Les Baer, but keep coming back here and seeing one astonishing gun after another. Before I make my decision I've decided to ask for some guidance here. Any help you can give me will be warmly appreciated.

1. I see that many of the builders here start with a Colt. Why is this? Why not one of the higher end "semi custom" guns? (Although I did just see a completed Les Baer SRP, I'm sure that it's waaaaayyyy out of my range.

2. I am not going to shoot competively. No clubs here, no place to go unless I want to travel 300 miles. I am looking for an absolutely reliable (within reason) single stack 1911 I can carry. I have another Kimber, a Pro CDP and for now I'm happy with that.

3. My budget is around 1500 + or minus a little. Can I get a custom gun in that price range? If not, will builders let you order and then make payments, assuming that the final payment would be made when the gun is ready?

4. And finally, there is a (imo) a butt ugly Caspian frame, mostly Wilson custom gun on gunbroker for 1200. I would have to have it refinished. Anybody heard of Denver45? He's the builder.

5. And now really finally, the guns I've seen here are more than 1911s. They are a lot more like functional art and even if I can't end up with one, just looking at them makes my day everytime I come here.

Thanks folks,

jzzmusican

You can get a REALLY nice Yost-Bonitz 1* Elite for less than $1500 including the cost of the pistol. Ted and the boys build some really nice pistols. And they can be built/modified to suit your needs.

http://www.yost-bonitz.com/photos/1asterisk-enhanced/

Or the basic 1* pistol for even less

http://www.yost-bonitz.com/photos/1asterisk/

All of the smiths here have the ability to build you a nice pistol, and it will be head and shoulders above any "semi-custom" you can buy.

--Mark

If you believe you have certainly caught the 1911 flu I would like to inform you that it probably will not go away. Having said that and assuming you have it you are at one point or another going to end up with a custom gun from somebody. Be sure of a few things before you go down that path. There are untold numbers of people who figured a Kimber Pro Something would scratch their itch.

A gun done by any of the smiths here will prove itself to be what you were describing....functional art so to speak. Colts are used at a base platform for alot of reasons. The most important I would think is that they provide a very nice canvas for the smith to start on. Plus when the smith is done it says Colt. For some people the history and heritage of the original makers of the 1911 that means alot. Kimbers have several average or okay parts on them but generally fit poorly in some cases. In the semi-custom realm of Les Baer, Ed Brown, Wilson, Valtro, Rock River, you are trying and they are attempting to provide a gun that scratches that itch immediately and that gun doesn't exist.

Your question about payment. I don't know about the practices of all the shops but for the Yost-Bonitz shop we don't ask for payment up front. Most of the shops here on LTW want to earn your business. If waiting is not an issue and your Kimbers are taking care of your business then find a NRM Colt Series 80 for around $550.00 or so, send it to the smith of your choice and discuss with him what you want the gun to be. I can tell you for the cost of any of the semi-customs I mentioned any shop here will provide you with an exceptional gun that shoots all day, every day and the customer service you get back from that smith will be above and beyond what you expected. Every smith on LTW has a sterling reputation for competence, business practices, and customer service.

Look at pictures, ask questions, and decide what YOU want out of your personal 1911. It aint' yours until someone builds it for you. The semi-custom guns fill a need, however, if they have to get six guns out a day and it's your day, and it's Friday..............you get what you pay for. I am not knocking these guys it is the nature of the business.

Once you send your gun in you should have anywhere from six months to upwards of a couple years, depending on the shop and that gives most people time to hide a few clams from your significant.

The difference between a shop building your gun and a company is the shop, the individual smith is responsible for what ends up in your hands. I can only tell you I have seen work done by every smith represented here and if I didn't work for Ted, I would ask any one or a number of them to build me a gun. Good luck in your search.

_________________
Heirloom Precision, LLC.
480-804-1911

"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking."
- General George Patton Jr

Here’s my take on the subject...

The learning curve for custom guns can be pretty steep, so getting educated before you lay out your hard earned cash is a very wise thing. Talk to the ‘smiths here, ask them what they can do for you given your budget, and decide what you need on the gun to satisfy your requirements.

With that being said, if you’re ready to step up from your Kimber and have $1500+ to spend the Yost-Bonitz 1* enhanced is smokin’ deal for the money!!

I’ve owned guns from the big three semi-custom makers and have literally shot the snot out of a TR Special for the last 3+ years. The TR has been a great gun that I doubt I’ll ever sell but, for the money, a true custom gun such as the 1* Enhanced or Elite is a better deal and at the moment the best bargain in custom guns. Think about it, you get a true custom gun built on an SA (or Colt if you “pony up” a few extra dollars) for less than many of semi-customs.

Like Steve said, any of the ‘smiths on LTW can build you a fantastic gun that will truly be your gun as opposed to someone else’s creation of a gun they want to sell you. Snoop around, look at the pictures, and read the posts and you’ll come away a smarter and more educated consumer.

As for the choice of base gun... One of the reasons most custom guns are not just tuned up Wilson’s, Brown’s, or Baer’s is because one is generally locked into certain features or cosmetics and building on a gun such as that is often not the most economically wise choice. While they can no doubt make a nice base gun to be reworked into a custom piece, it often doesn’t make allot of sense to buy a $1800 CQB just to soak another $1500 into it only to have it still say Wilson Combat “CQB” on the side.

IMO, a mil-spec Colt or Springfield is the best way to go if for no other reason than once the work is done and the project completed just to look at the piece one will know it’s something special. For me, part of the “custom gun thing” is taking that plane-Jane Colt and turning it into something that can only be understood through it’s use... something that truly fits the definition of “functional art”.

jzz, I am by no means as well versed as Steve, Jason and Mark when it comes down to 1911 but I have learned a good dose from those fellows and others alike.

For one, worked over Kimbers by a competent pistolsmith will yield satisfactory results. For that matter, there really isn't anything wrong with any 1911 (at least from Kimber, S/A, Colt) right out of the box. A semi-custom pistol is just that, it's another person's interpretation of what a per-se custom pistol should be, almost to the point of mass-producer. Now don't misunderstand me, I have seen and shot guns from Baer, Wilson, Valtro and the like and they are nice representations of work.

But on the other hand, when you commission a true "custom" pistol it's exactly that, YOUR definition of what you want (within reason). Any of the fellow board members can make anything you want from mild to wild and execute with utmost care and precision. These gentlemen are among the few that are the pinnacle of their crafts. Make no mistake, you get what you ask for from these folks.

Myself, when I save up enough scratch I WILL own a stable of 1* Elites.

Enough of my ranting, I'll throw in my 2 cents about your questions:

1. The NRM Colt Series 80 and S/A Mil-Spec are ideal foundations solely on economics IMO. If you take a look at it, you really only want the frame, slide and maybe the barrel to begin your project. The rest is pretty much scrapped. The factory MIM stuff just doesn't pass the bench here. If you start with anything else, you're throwing money down the drain. Save it for ammo and mags!

2. Don't get me wrong, if you're happy with what you have, then why change? The answer: We always want more....simple satisfaction is not an option. If it was, then they guys would be out of business!

3. IMO, you're on the right track. I believe it is very important to set a monetary guideline because you really don't want to go overboard on something you're going to shoot. But, there are times when you just hand the gun over, sing your name on the blank check, and let the pistolsmith have at it. That said, it's tough to beat a 1* Elite/Enhanced Package from Yo-Bo!

4. I'll have to veto that idea. Unless you've set your mind to it, don't do it. I am sure Ted et al could tell you nightmare stories of trying to fix other FUBAR'd guns. For 1200.00 that's pretty much 2 NRM Colts or 2 S/A MilSpecs.

5. Yes, you're right! Some of it is definitely eye candy and regulated as "Safe Queens." But the 1* packages are for one thing.....throwing lead and copper down range!

W

What they said. Great advice, fellas.

~Jim Keeney

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"I'd rather die on my feet than keep living on my knees." - Emiliano Zapata, Mexican Revolutionary

Having sat in that same chair not too long ago I can say welcome to the crowd. The advice is golden - take it to heart. I'm going to do three different 1911s (in two waves) through the crew at Yo-BO.

A pair of Commanders for carry - pure fighting pistols no frills just 100% reliability and no MIM parts (I don't want to cry too loudly if it sits in an evidence locker for two years without being cleaned)

A full house custom Commander or Reporduction 70 Series (Not decided yet) - all the frills and fancy stuff that I would like on the carry Commander but am smart enough to keep off a pure carry pistol.

Call and talk to the guys at Yo-Bo they are more than willing to listen (which is important) as well as offer advice on building options, needs, and suggestions.

JeffVN

Welcome!
I've just got a second, but will throw my humble 02 out....
Again, welcome.

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CT Brian Custom
'Blending Art With Firepower'

There was another thread here on Colts you'll find interesting. IMHO, the new Colts are by far the best value in base guns in terms of quality, flexibility in a custom build, and of course heritage and resale. The only problem right now is finding them...they are in short supply.

Edit to add: If anyone's got a line on new Colt's at dealer (or close), please let me know, I'll be forever grateful! (Sorry for the minor hijack)

_________________
Stan Chen Customs
http://www.chencustoms.com

jzzmusician-

Boy, did you come to the RIGHT place!!

I am a very satisfied customer of Yo-Bo, Don Williams and John Harrison (I'd like to be a customer of the other guys, but I still have a son to put through college ). I carry one of their pistols on duty as a cop and off duty as well. I sure would not do that if I didn't have faith that they'd go BANG every time. Yes, each pistol has a "pretty" or two about it...just because. My son's current aspiration is to have a career in law enforcement (go figure) and he will be given one or more of these pistols. If he's allowed to carry a 1911 by whatever agency he might work for, I'll know he will be carrying one that is utterly reliable. That should tell you what I think of them.

Good luck, have fun.

_________________
Sic Semper Tyrannis

Spoon,
If your son ever has the desire to move to sunny AZ, let me know. We are always looking for talented Deputies. Our Chief, and most of the command staff carry Colts. With over 3000 people in the office I can't see us moving away from 1911's anytime soon. That is alot of guns to buy. You survived an outstanding career, I wish your son the same.

_________________
Heirloom Precision, LLC.
480-804-1911

"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking."
- General George Patton Jr

Steve-

Thank you, Sir, for your kind words and generous offer. He has 4 1/2 years of education to go, but being able to carry a 1911 might be all the enticement he needs to come to Arizona.

Let's see now...son takes job in AZ, dad gets to visit and stop in at the Yo-Bo shop and drool (Not all of the drooling caused by old age either ) That'll work!

Thanks again, Brother-

Chip

_________________
Sic Semper Tyrannis