ltwguns.com

What are the pros and cons of the multitude of custom finishes available?
Bearcoat, Birdsong Black-T, Roguard, Yost-Bonitz XPC, etc... I am looking for the most durable finish that most closely resembles non-flat bluing?

Andrew,
I will give you my .02 on various finishes. First off, I like standard bluing for a black gun for two simple reasons. Yeah, bluing is going to wear but getting your pistol reblued is generally less expensive and easy. Two, worn blue guns have character in my opinion.

Of the paint finishes, I think Birdsong's does a great job, our rifle painting always looks great. I don't have much experience with Roguard, somebody else can chime in there.
Do you mean a satin? Flat? Non flat to me would be polished. If you want the "tactical" thing you might be looking for Black T. If you want a classic black pistol like most prefer, then get your pistol blued and see how it turns out. If you don't like....then get it redone.

As a side note, there are those that appreciate parkerizing on a pistol.

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Heirloom Precision, LLC.
480-804-1911

"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking."
- General George Patton Jr

Take a look at the Black Baer thread running on this forum. If you need the corrosion resistance of the Teflon, Moly stuff, this is not a bad way to go. I had the satin Bear Coat applied to a handgun a while back and was generally happy with it. Meaning, it looked pretty close to blueing and did it's job. It's not very tough, though. I'm considering using it again on my next project. I NP3 ed a gun as well and would'nt hesitate to use Robar for any finish or service as they are some of the finest guys in the business. Class act. I like NP 3 for the internals, although I had my entire pistol done in it. I had no complaints except I'm just not fond of the color. I'm a classic or retro kinda guy but I have to be practical here in Houston. That beautiful blue is a major PITA here since my cop job has me climbing in/out of an air-conditioned care all day causing condensation (read oxidation). A CHL holder could have the same issue. If I were to build a showpiece, it would be blue. My work guns have to have a Teflon finish since I am A/K/A Acid Hands. Hell, I turned a gray Armor-Tuff green. Bill had never seen that before!

edited for more ramblings of a pre-coffee zombie.....

I've used Black-T on my pistols in the past have and generally been very pleased with it. It certainly gives a very deep, all-business look to the finish. Like all finishes, it will wear. To what extent depends on how you carry it, and how much you baby it. Mine is carried in a 'smooth-side-in' Milt Sparks holster. It's only shown wear around the muzzle and the dust cover.

Good, black parkerizing productes a nice looking weapon, however the corrosion resistance doesn't compare.

Quality blueing rules when it comes to beauty, but only offers very basic rust protection. Wipe it down with oil frequently. It'll wear, but it's wear creates wonderful character.

Unfortunately, there are no easy choices when it comes to finishes.

Steve have you had any experience with powder coating on firearms? I have one of the small units and have coated 3 firearms. I did the slide of my well worn K9 Kahr, a Ruger MK 1 (John Deere green. So ugly it was attractive) and my hunting buddies 10-22 in a matte black. It seems to wear well and is not bad looking, especially the matte black. It sure isnt as nice as a good blue though. The only negative I know is the thickness and it is a $%&* to get off once its on.

I have not had any experience with powder coating firearms. I built a Ford Mustang years ago and powder coated some of the parts in the motor. Post some pics if you have some available. Good blueing is still my favorite and what attracts me to guns first. On a 1911 I am a sucker for a two tone gun with a hardchrome lower and blued upper.

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Heirloom Precision, LLC.
480-804-1911

"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking."
- General George Patton Jr

I think the main issue with powdercoating is the thickness, and the fit of parts. I still favor a nicely polished and blued gun. Seeing Steve's latest project come together cemented that perspective for me. Wait til you see the pics!

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Heirloom Precision, LLC.
480-804-1911

Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing.

TR

I have not seen powder coating on a pistol yet, but would have the same thickness concerness that Ted does.

My AUG and SIG rifles are both powder coated from the factory and have great wear/corrosion protection. However the areas where the bolt, trigger, all moving parts work were masked off and are not coated. I believe that everything was phospated first, so the unpainted areas still have some protection.

Best,

Ray

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http://www.harmscustomdesigns.com

Fellas,

Anyone have good pics of a blackened stainless finish? It is stainless, so that is a good starting point, and the blackening gives it a subdued or "tactical" look. I only have one available now, but I should have a great one to share after Thanksgiving. It wears like bluing and is done almost exactly in the same manner as standard bluing in a hot salt bath.

~Jim Keeney

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"I'd rather die on my feet than keep living on my knees." - Emiliano Zapata, Mexican Revolutionary

Here is a pic of a receiver that started as a "stainless" 10-22. I blasted the silver paint off the alloy reciever then coated with flat black powder.







BTW how do you guys imbed pics in these posts?

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Gary Eastridge
http://www.randgfirearms.com

To imbed an image into your post place your hosted image loacation between "[img]"%20and%20"[/img]".

Here's a 1911 done on Caspian stainless frame and slide. Everything on the gun is stainless except the springs, grips, trigger shoe, and MSH (made by me from 7075 aluminum).

Posting this pic from ImageStation which means if prob'ly won't work or not for long, so I'll be back later to do it right.

Finish is chrome sulphide.

Yep. I.S. never fails to disappoint by disappointing. Here's the pic-

OK Ned, please tell us about this "chrome sulphide" finish. Who does it, what is it etc.

Thanks!

CS is a conversion process, that is, not a spray and bake, it colors the metal. Tha's about all I know. Tech Plate in CA did this gun including the chrome on the hammer and barrel..... they did a good job at a good price and very timely. It wasn't quite perfect-- I mean, there was just the tiniest bit of mottling on the frame, pretty much imperceptible and the kind of thing that would disappear in a week's use, but I asked about it in terms of, is there something I could do on the next one to help prevent this, or is it possibly because it was a cast frame? I had another project almost identical to this one coming up and was just gonna try for perfection on it. The really wierd answer that came back essentially said, don't bring no more of your business around here, boy.

That was pretty unfortunate because I thought I mighta had a source I could work with. Guess they thought I was a problem customer

As I previously mentioned, satin Bear Coat was probably going to be my choice of finish for my next project (whenever I can find a S 70 repro at a decent price). However, there is a thread running on TheHighRoad.org which has me re-thinking that decision. I gave them a thumbs-up based on my positive experience a few years ago but it's possible this gentleman's experience just discouraged any current recommendations. I don't intend to be a poop-stirrer but just offer a heads-up.

Dayamm, Ned........ I've used those guys for years to do my annodizing. Had no idea they were that hard to get along with, although I have noticed their 'bedside manner' leaves a bit to be desired.

What 'r we gonna do now???

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CT Brian Custom
'Blending Art With Firepower'

If they've been doing a good job and getting along with you, I'd say stay with 'em..... but they made it clear beyond any doubt that they would not miss my business. I mean, way beyond any doubt that it was a bad day or poor choice of words. This was nine months or so ago so you can see I did not rush onto the net to bash them, but since somebody asked "who", I'm not going to tap dance.

I have come to not expect perfection in refinishing regardless of the source, which is not to say they're all bad, just that it's a tough job to do flawlessly. But I insist on good communication, and a little customer service and courtesy is always nice. I've heard less than glowing reports about the places in FL, not sure if that was to include Ford's, but Ford's has done well by me. They will listen to me and talk to me, super-important. If something is not quite right, they step up immediately and do whatever it takes to correct it. Virgil Tripp has also been great to work with, obviously, although I have not had occaision to use him since he resumed chroming.

Thanks for the heads up, Ned.
Absolutely ditto.
I've too have had some 'issues' with a few FL finishers, but like you have had no problems with Horace. As for Virgil's hard chrome, it's done right and he's a pleasure to work with.

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CT Brian Custom
'Blending Art With Firepower'

I know that not all ''spray n bakes'' are the same and that there are plenty
of options for teflon type finishes.

Is the Yost-Bonitz XPC finish done in house?
How does it differ from Black-T or Bear-Coat?
Any pics of your guns finished in XPC?

The Kimber I sent you Ted is finished in Dupont Teflon-S and has a
''thicker'' paint look to it unlike my Birdsong finished Browning BPS 3 1/2
pump.

I'm interested in a new finish as well. I have a stainless Colt that I would like darkened. I'd prefer a finish that was not sprayed or baked on. I love the look of a worn blued gun. Does anyone have more info on this blackened stainless finish?

I had Virgil Tripp put his Cobra Coat over my stainless Commander back in June. It's holding up well. In the long run, I'm looking forward to alternatives such as shown above.

I like blue finish and don't mind honest wear. I don't know why I bought that stainless Commander. At the time it caught my eye, but as some on another board once said, it should be called souless. I just never took to it as I have others. It just never felt warm to me. I like it a lot more now.

Hard chrome, however, I kinda like.

Virgil helped me out with a beat up Model 15 this year as well. Very nice guy to work with. Good communication and very pleasant.

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Jeff

Re: the finish questions.
(1) I too have tried to sort out the choices for the application I have in mind. Basicaly the finish I would like to obtain would be something on the order of the texture and color of the grey /black mil-spec anodizing of an AR-15 reciever. It would be nice if it had the durability and hardness of the glock tenifer. Dose anything fit the bill that can actually be obtained commercially???
(2) I have a Wilson compact that I am very pleased with in almost every way, however it needs to be highgriped to fit my hand. I have a local spray and bake vendor that does decent work. I've been toying with the idea of not reanodizing the gun, just refininshing it since.... surface hardness might not be a problem in what would be a coated area just under the trigger guard. I mean, it doesn't seem like it would take much structural stress there and the likely hood of a significant pointy ding in that location would be very remote. Does anybody know if I can or should try this?

Tradewind, I'm not aware of anyone doing melonite or Tenifer as an outside service, but there is a guy who is offering TiAlN, titanium aluminum nitride, which might just be a Tennifer-beater, but I would not know for sure. Thing is, it is pretty spendy, $400+ as I recall. They will work only through gunsmiths. I've had a little contact with the guy getting it going and he is very knowledgable and friendly, but I did not keep his info. I saw this either on 1911 Forums or Pistolsmith, if you go there and seach around I'm sure you'll find him.

I think if you just relieve under the trigger guard and don't reanodize you'll be OK.

Edit: Couldn't help it, I wanted to go review that thread and found it:
http://www.pistolsmith.com/viewtopic.ph ... sc&start=0

Ned,

thanks for the info. The price I was quoted has now risen to $520 and no information yet on wheather it can be obtained in black.

contact information I recieved is (248) 470-7366 (name unknown) and email address of ITRElise@aol.com

High-tech finishes R not a poor man's sport!

Tim, I used to live about 7-8 miles down the road from Tech-Plate before I had the sense to leave Calif, and I also used them for years. It was convenient, as I could just drive down and drop stuff off and pick it up when done. They always did good work, but Marshall as you said, has all the personality of a bowling ball. I guess it works for them, as they seem to stay busy, but firearms are sort of a sideline for them. They do a lot of guns, but they're really a commercial plater of all sorts of items, and maybe we're just a pain. I've seen big molds for playground balls in there getting plated for example, and maybe those folks don't care too much about appearance. I know Liebenberg used to use them before he went to S&W (maybe after as well), and Tussey still uses them I think. Frankly, they got too expensive for me with the way they charge per piece.

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Don Williams
http://www.theactionworks.com
http://www.ltwguns.com

Thanks for the info, Don. Agreed they are expensive and Marshall has all the personality of a box of sand, but I just haven't found anyone else (yet) who does their level of work. I've not recieved anything back from them that I had a complaint about.

Unfortunately, that can't be said for all the finishers out there. There are some serious butchers out there, too. Had one outfit in Florida that actually ruined one of my SideWinders - to the point of having to pitch the frame.

I am always open to hearing about the anodizers anyone on the BOD uses, though.

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CT Brian Custom
'Blending Art With Firepower'

The guy must be the owner because I can't imagine an employee like that lasting..... unless the owners are of the same attitude. But if there is a certain kind of business they don't want all they have to do is not take it in.... that would be my approach anyway, as opposed to taking it and then sending it back with a wierd get lost jerk message.

Ned, Yeah, Marshalls the owner. Actually, he seems to have less personality now.

Tim, Don't know if you tried them, but Theo turned me on to Westfield Electroplating in Mass. awhile back. I had used them once when I had an early Kahr with the factory NP3 type finish. Frame had to be re-done, and I called Kahr Arms, and that's who did the finish for them. I hadn't used them in several years, but Ted had been using them for anodizing, so I've used them a couple of times since. Last time it was about $90.00 for the one frame, but they did a good job with about a 2 week turn. They used to do batches for the same price, so if you have more than one....... Also, you might check with Ted, as he had a line on a local place for anodizing.

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Don Williams
http://www.theactionworks.com
http://www.ltwguns.com